Big bore bikes and perspective.

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Strika
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Big bore bikes and perspective.

Post by Strika »

just returned from a little key in....brain out.....ride thru the hills, :twisted: and a couple of things about the ride stuck in my mind. :idea:

One was the gravel............. :wink: but it wasn't the stuff Andi spoke of on the reefton. Matter of fact the reefton was pretty good apart from that re-done middle section, and even that has anough grip now to have fun on. The gravel I speak of was on the Woori Yallock-Gembrook rd. Fun stuff. Nice and thick, right on the tip in zone of several tight turns. And not a warning sign within sight.......... :x

The other was the age old Big bore Vs 600 argument. But this time it was highlighted by something other than a comparo between one of each category, but rather a comparo within the big bore class..............Allow me to elaborate, and set the scene somewhat....... :D

The argument for 600's is partially the light weight and partially the ease with which they change direction, and the Physical input required or rather, supposed lack of it. The argument goes that they are flickable and it's easy to access the power they have, thus enabling a relative newcomer to adapt easily enough. Whereas the larger capacity bikes are just more physically demanding to ride, and much harder to control and harness all the power they produce.

The people who ride a big bore will tell you that it's the fact that they don't need to rev the bollocks off it to get it to go, and therefore it is a far more relaxed ride, even if it is a little more Physically demanding to steer.

Well today i had a little ride with two mates on lateish model R1's. At open road speeds, I was able to just roll on the throttle, and make short work of any obstacles ie-cars and other traffic, whereas, my two sports bike mounted friends were having to bang it down a few to get it stay with mine, both on overtaking, and on corner exits. This was noticed not by me, but by the guys I was riding with.

At each stop they were both saying that they couldn't keep up out of the turns unless they dropped it down a couple of gears. Whereas mine was right in the fat part of it's power and torque curve all the time.

To get on with it.......I am now of the opinion that 600 sports bikes are not things we should recommend when asked "what should I upgrade to?". I would now after having experience with both, encourage people to look at bikes that produce similiar power to a 600 race rep, but with a tad more capacity. I believe they would be a far more road friendly mount, with the rider able to concentrate on riding, and not have to worry about going up and down the gearbox.

Another event that occured to assist in formulating this opinion was a young guy up over the top of reefton, who took off from the stopping point at full noise in first, then shifted to second and held it at full noise, and then proceeded down to Marysville......in second gear :shock:

We went past him over lake mountain, and guess what....he was still reving the nuts off it, and was still only doing 80k/h :lol: :lol:

he stopped at the servo in Marysville, so I tackfully made sure there was nothing wrong with his gearbox, :wink: and then suggested he may like to try some of the other 4 gears the R6 he was on had!!! :lol: :lol:


Back to the issue, for all those considering upgrading to a bigger bike, if you feel you are physically able to handle a heavier weighted bike, have a look at some of the so-called "de-tuned" models. they may well be the riding improver you have been looking for. :)
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Post by javaman »

Are you saying grunt is better than HP on the road ? But then where's the excitement (and wailing noise :lol: )

600 vs 1000... well my 600 is 189kg and the new gixxer is 166kg so yes I want the 1000 :D
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Post by SocialSecurity »

just curious, what is it that you ride strika?


i could believe the R1's need the gears shuffled about a bit (so does my 9R) do to the tall gearing
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Post by SocialSecurity »

javaman wrote:600 vs 1000... well my 600 is 189kg and the new gixxer is 166kg so yes I want the 1000 :D
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/145/4625/

:P
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Post by javaman »

Nice site !!

Here's strika's hornet vs the R1. Apparently R1 needs twice the RPM to get the maximum torque :shock: I can't imagine how one would ride in reefton at 10,000 rpm.

http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/4553/4593/

What rpm range do you usually use in reefton strika ?
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Post by Felix »

I have said before the XJ 900 I had made me a better rider, and it did. Now that I face not having a job in about 6 weeks, I wish I had just fixed it up, but, well, there you go...I bought a newy...

But there was something quite nice about pretty much always being in the right gear. Pulled easily from 50kph in 5th...and the bike didn't go bad either :lol:

But would I swap back? No! The SV650S is all the things I liked about the XJ (apart from out-right cheapness), with none of the bad...Basically just easily accessible power and torque, although it doesn't pay to use 5th and 6th around town...and 70kg less. The Z750 and the Hornet were very XJ~ish in that they were quite forgiving bikes to ride, with a nice fat amount of torque nearly everywhere you wanted it...all of a sudden the Triumph philosophy makes much sense...
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Post by Strika »

javaman wrote:Are you saying grunt is better than HP on the road ? But then where's the excitement (and wailing noise :lol: )

600 vs 1000... well my 600 is 189kg and the new gixxer is 166kg so yes I want the 1000 :D
Andi, grunt is HP, as HP is just Torque X Revs............. So in other words it makes it's power earlier....... :)

To answer your other question as to what revs i carry up reefton, it just depends on how hard I am going Andi. Today I barely exceeded 4500rpm all the way up. Only occasionally did I rev it past 4500 which equates to 130 gazelles in top gear. When I ride with you however I have to rev it a lot harder just to stay in front. Sometimes as much as 5000rpm :shock:

But what I am refering to is at speeds at or around 100 gazelles, I just dial up a little throttle and wooshka! We're away!!! :lol: Whereas the R1 mounted boys were requiring a gear change or too to match acceleration. Now I am hoping this is not due to rider differences as these guys were on my chuff thru the turns, but I would haul arse coming out, and passing stuff appeared to be a more relaxed affair with the Cb rather than the lever tapping dance routine the boys behind were performing. :wink:
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Post by Strika »

SocialSecurity wrote:just curious, what is it that you ride strika?


i could believe the R1's need the gears shuffled about a bit (so does my 9R) do to the tall gearing
Suzuki Across :lol:





Nah just kidding. I got a Cb900 Hornet H....Ho......Hon.........awww you know :lol:
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Post by photomike666 »

Brings a few points come to mind.

The guy revving the nuts off the r6 was probably a newer rider coming from a 250. That is how you ride a 250 and second was probably quite quick enough on the 600 thank you very much

Learning to harness the power is about throttle control and gear selection. As you move up the cc brackets, you have more power at hand and therefore rely more on the throttle than gear selection. With the 250s it's more full throttle and use gears to control speed. I know I'm exaggerating, but close to the truth. Jump a cc bracket and you could find yourself jamming open the throttle and get a whole lot more than you bargained for.

The guy on the 600 left at full noise, proceeded to 2nd gear and straight to full noise. I can happily do that on my 6 with next to no risk of the front lifting. A 1000 will lift the front hoop with any harsh attempt to reach full noise. I'd have to work hard to flip my 6, I think I'd have to work hard not to flip a thou.

Andi. The point Marty was making regarding the gearshift, revs and torque is quite true. The detuned 1000s are set up kills top end power, but dumps a whole load in the mid range. Makes the bike quite bland when you really get it spinning, but come out of a corner at 6000 and it's already alive, where the tuned sports needs a couple thou more before it gets going. Some would argue that the 1000 rider should have been in a lower gear so that he was in the sweet spot ready for the corner exit :?:

Damn, that's a long post and not even a rant :roll:
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Post by Strika »

Photomike666 said

The guy on the 600 left at full noise, proceeded to 2nd gear and straight to full noise. I can happily do that on my 6 with next to no risk of the front lifting. A 1000 will lift the front hoop with any harsh attempt to reach full noise. I'd have to work hard to flip my 6, I think I'd have to work hard not to flip a thou.


Yeah but my 919 won't scare shit outta ya like that Mike. You would have to have a launch pad or some clutch slippage to provoke it. :lol:

The point I was trying to make with the guy on the arsehix, was that he could hear all this cocophony going on underneath him, and thought he was Valentino. The three of us went around him at barely an idle. Point being, revvy little bikes even 600 cc ones may give the wrong Aural impressions. A nice quiet low revving bike makes you feel as though you are not going as fast. It's a mental thing. And he certainly was pretty mental :lol:
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Post by javaman »

After a while I found the 6 a bit frustrating on slow twisties like reefton. Now I opt for a higher gear which wounds up slowly, but smoother and more "go" as compared to "correct gear" but then running out of breath :roll: and requiring gear change, then down again next corner.

Arthur seat is worse :(

Nice rpm range is 7000-9000, but with the higher gear selected it drops down to about 5000ish.

SO if you're a 6 rider, what do you use in reefton ? I heard smek changed the rear sprocket ratio, would like to know his opinion ?
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Post by Maty10 »

javaman wrote: SO if you're a 6 rider, what do you use in reefton ? I heard smek changed the rear sprocket ratio, would like to know his opinion ?

Personally I leave it in 3rd. The 636 still has enough midrange too pull out nicely (for my suitably small interpretation of nicely) of the turns but still leaves enough headroom to be going too quick for the next corner.
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Post by SocialSecurity »

javaman, its called shortshifting 8) works quite well too

i basically stay in 3rd most of the time around the spurs or reefton, maybe drop it back to 2nd out of some slow corners if im trying to keep up with a madman :wink: but thats on a 9R...


back to the original topic, i think a lot of it would come down to the nature of the beasts.... look at the hornet vs r1 specs, have a look at the stroke on the 919 compared to the R1.... even with 79cc less it has a MUCH longer stroke, thats gonna make for quite a 'grunty' motor... plus the 919 being a slightly 'detuned' version of the old CBR900RR (which was always known as being 'grunty) and has slightly different cam timing to make it 'gruntier'. the hornet would also have quite short gears compared to an R1, would it not?

the R1's (or anything similar) tend to have quite long gears, and they are still a handful to keep the front wheel down at the best of times... power delivery is quite insane too.. so really you have to be quite dedicated to ride them hard thru the spurs... not the most friendly steed for putting around the spurs :lol:
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Post by Phil »

just get a 9 and be done with it...............ya gotta love the 9.
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Post by z900/zx9 »

Yep no probs with a 9 got it on tap :D
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