Riding Soft

[RedRoo]

So you go fast boys think your new latest model bikes fly?

I am a self confessed lover of the Forgotten Era Bikes, big ballsy over powered, underbraked, average handling, air cooled bikes, bikes you have to ride with some pretty big degree of effort and some bigger degree of rider talent to get the most out of them.

At the Island Classic just held at PI, Aussie racing legend "It's Horn Mate" Robbie Phillis (Suzuki GSX1100, 1980) Peter Guest (Kawasaki Z1R-1000) both got their 26 year old "old school" bikes lapping PI in the 1min 44's with Phillis best of a 1;44.655sec..... not to shabby on bikes with around 160hp, cheese cutter tyres and single piston caliper brakes, flexy frames and twin rear shocks.

So the question begs, does the modern ubber bike rider rely more on the bike than talent to go fast, obviously a top quality rider does make a difference, but, if the bike was not capable of doing the business in the first place then the time can not be acheived. Are we just Soft when a 26 year old bike with 50 year old riders can do these times?

[Strika]

So you go fast boys think your new latest model bikes fly?

I am a self confessed lover of the Forgotten Era Bikes, big ballsy over powered, underbraked, average handling, air cooled bikes, bikes you have to ride with some pretty big degree of effort and some bigger degree of rider talent to get the most out of them.

At the Island Classic just held at PI, Aussie racing legend "It's Horn Mate" Robbie Phillis (Suzuki GSX1100, 1980) Peter Guest (Kawasaki Z1R-1000) both got their 26 year old "old school" bikes lapping PI in the 1min 44's with Phillis best of a 1;44.655sec..... not to shabby on bikes with around 160hp, cheese cutter tyres and single piston caliper brakes, flexy frames and twin rear shocks.

So the question begs, does the modern ubber bike rider rely more on the bike than talent to go fast, obviously a top quality rider does make a difference, but, if the bike was not capable of doing the business in the first place then the time can not be acheived. Are we just Soft when a 26 year old bike with 50 year old riders can do these times?

The thing is, and you of all people should know this RR , the bikes they race, bear a cosmetic resemblance to the roadies of the day, and that's about it! Trick frame bracing, even trickier reengineering of old stuff to look the same but work like new stuff, wider wheels with good quality slick tyres, modern suspension internals and riders who no matter how old they get will ALWAYS be fast!!!!!

I am a Gumby C grade punter, and have lapped the Island on a Stock Standard 2005 ZX636 in 1'46". Now that is lights, indicators and standard tyres. the only thing I did was add a little more of everything in the suspension department ie-preload,comp,rebound and removed the mirrors! So I'd reckon If I can lap in that time on one, Guesty or Robbie should be in the flat 40's! or close to it on one! And that's from a 600 or thereabouts cc stock standard road bike! Imagine if it had sorted suspension, road gear removed a pipe and slicks???

So while I agree that Robbie and Guesty's times are fast, I disagree that it's more rider than bike. Those F.E. bikes handle pretty damn good.

[balanse]

Interesting also that Phillis is not the fittest looking bastard in the paddock either, seems talent lasts longer than muscle.

I reckon that it'd be real interesting to see what Crusty or a Staufer can do on the same Soozook.

This all might go how Vintage MX went here in Vic...started as the domain of old blokes on old bikes and then when it became popular the old blokes started putting young blokes on their bikes to win the trophies.

[FrogZ]

Surely grip is still the limiting factor?
(Accepting that you MUST have talent to start with)

[Gosling1]

Interesting also that Phillis is not the fittest looking bastard in the paddock either, seems talent lasts longer than muscle.

I reckon that it'd be real interesting to see what Crusty or a Staufer can do on the same Soozook.

This all might go how Vintage MX went here in Vic...started as the domain of old blokes on old bikes and then when it became popular the old blokes started putting young blokes on their bikes to win the trophies.

he isn't carrying too much pud !! I reckon Crusty or Staufer would shit their fruit on one of these old dungers........for at least one or 2 laps, then they might settle in to some good times........

There are already young blokes being bunged onto the old bikes - Sam Smith is only 19, and races a 500 Norton - he is one of the quickest punters out there....

....So the question begs, does the modern ubber bike rider rely more on the bike than talent to go fast?.....

absolutely. There can be be no question at all that the quality of frame, suspension and tyres in the last 25 years has improved beyond comprehension.

New bikes turn average riders into good riders. Its that simple. Of course you have to have talent to go really fast ( that has always been the case and will never change), its just that that bikes of the new generation allow gumbies to ride really quickly, in relative safety.

The FE bikes that Guesty and Robbie ride, are equipped with 160-section rear slicks, WhitePower shocks, and Brembo twin-piston calipers. They are a lot better than the old shitters you and I used to ride on mate - But, a lot of the field are still on 'cheesecutters', with stock frames and poxy shocks/brakes etc. These ones still wobble around !!! Robbies bike was an Exocet down the straight, and coming onto and out of T12, it was rock-solid......

BTW, Bill 'Barney' Horseman was at the Island Classic, he was pulling 1:57's on a 45 year-old Honda 450 twin !!!!! Barney was winning motorcycle races at Bathurst before most of this forum was born. He is a living legend. Blokes like him make *most* riders look soft !!!!

[Strika]

they gave him a plug in the latest AMCN Gos! If people go back and check the record books from about the late 50's they should see his name printed regularly till about the 80's!!!!!

[Gosling1]

I watched him at Bathurst in the early 80's, and here we are in 2007 and he is still as fast and smooth as he ever was.

An absolute pleasure to watch him in action.

Combined age of rider and bike is >100years (I think )

[ProblemChild]

I watched him at Bathurst in the early 80's, and here we are in 2007 and he is still as fast and smooth as he ever was.

An absolute pleasure to watch him in action.

Combined age of rider and bike is >100years (I think )

i remember those bathurst trips more for the drunken campsite antics than the racing what a f ing blast

[Strika]

I watched him at Bathurst in the early 80's, and here we are in 2007 and he is still as fast and smooth as he ever was.

An absolute pleasure to watch him in action.

Combined age of rider and bike is >100years (I think )

i remember those bathurst trips more for the drunken campsite antics than the racing what a f ing blast

Our lot, were the ones on the big left hand sweeper (can't member it's name?? McPhilamy Pk mebe??????) atop the scaffolding! We had a urinal set up on the second level so you didn't have to climb down four stories to go for a pee. (Only thing was, we always managed to cut the hose a little too far from the ground! It splashed the odd person ) We also had the obligatory score cards! We all used to drive up in my mates old mans plumbers van, which was a big old grey international van (If any of you remember them ) Still had the pipes on the roof racks normally! I rode my 400 four there and back from Young one year. Near froze my knackers off! Ahh Kids!

[RedRoo]

I watched him at Bathurst in the early 80's, and here we are in 2007 and he is still as fast and smooth as he ever was.

An absolute pleasure to watch him in action.

Combined age of rider and bike is >100years (I think )

i remember those bathurst trips more for the drunken campsite antics than the racing what a f ing blast

geeezus mick, if you rememberr all that then you were not hammered enough.....innocent bystanders...lol

[balanse]

Bathurst ... you mean like this (apologise for hijack in advance)

[Gosling1]

Bathurst ... you mean like this (apologise for hijack in advance)

SUPERB !!! those photos are *ACE* mate, we need a special 'Bathurst' thread in here for all the evidence !

As far as thread hijacks go, this one is a beauty.......

Back on topic, my mate Pete with the R80G/S has often said that if we put some of the young bloke who ride in the local roads, onto any of the old bangers (Z1000, R80 or Katana), they would all shit their biscuit sideways, and have *no hope* of keeping up the pace........

The other thing that convinces me is all the shiny new leathers and kneescrapers, that have *never* seen the tarmac !!!!

[RedRoo]

my old next door neighbor dropped in today on his 12-something Katana, cbr wheels brakes etc..had nice little blat down memory lane over peachester, ahhh Gos your so right, guys not used to these things would crap, didnt turn, sorta stopped, rattled and vibrated like the displays at a sexpo and still went like sheeeet of a shinny shovel lurved it!

yep bathurst thread please, going through photos, didnt take many those days

[Gosling1]

I have some Bathurst evidence of *you* matey !! your safe at the moment, no scanner here, so I can't post it up......Yet ......

[RedRoo]

i think i should be scared...lol