Caltex vortex

[photomike666]

Shell 98 changed the blend when the name changed, and it only caused issues with carbs not fi.

91 & 95 all share base fuel from various refineries depending on state. Each fuel company adds its own additives at the loading gantry

[twelve]

I only run 98 but i really cant tell the difference between the manufacturers and this goes for my old r6 and now zx6

I do find that the woolworths/caltex 98 fuel gets burnt quicker in my car though

[stetto]

Bp or caltex is the go. Shell is shit, I can notice a difference and have spoken to alot of others of the same opinion including a few mechanics and dyno tuners

[seiko1]

It's all I use

[smithy5]

Bp or caltex is the go. Shell is shit, I can notice a difference and have spoken to alot of others of the same opinion including a few mechanics and dyno tuners

I heard the same, was advised to stay away from Shell Premium, if there is no other option, then ordinary Shell unleaded and not the Premium to get you to a BP or Caltex.

[born green]

Bp or caltex is the go. Shell is shit, I can notice a difference and have spoken to alot of others of the same opinion including a few mechanics and dyno tuners

I heard the same, was advised to stay away from Shell Premium, if there is no other option, then ordinary Shell unleaded and not the Premium to get you to a BP or Caltex.

Yep, spoken to a lot of turner's about it, they say the 98, as in V power was a dencer fuel, and doesnt burn properly, i know my mate used to use shell V power, on his ZX9R and it went thru plugs all the time, mick bub used to service it, and told him to change fuel.....
From what i understand, it was only the 98, the 95/91 was fine???

But ive never had a prob with vortex 98....so thats what i use in the 10, and she runs real well.....

[Six Addict]

I've never had any problem with any fuel I've ever put in any of my bikes... Admittedly neve had anything with efi...

I have only ever run 95 shell on the motard and it's fine...

[Jonnymac]

I think the shell 98 is fine if it's tuned for it. BG is right its a denser fuel and it's good when it's tuned for it but then the tune is no good for the other fuels

[Six Addict]

On efi bikes?

[ninja bob]

my brother had a skyline running around 300rwhp ran perfect on bp ultimate, pinged like all hell on shells 98 (i cant rember name they give it) he had to put a bottle of octance booster in it to get through the tank.
on non modified bike and cars prob matters next to nothing but i still use bp after that.

[mike-s]

Well discussions like this are going to get more and more valid with the whole ethanol debate not going away.
It doesn't meet emissions standards and something we will all notice much more, all prices are likely to rise. (another story).

This sucks as one of my bikes is one of the vehicles mentioned that probqably shouldn't be run on ethanol mixed fuels and it is an absolute pig to start when i use premium. The other is able to run, up to a maximum of a 10% mix, which although good, is also crap as economy does go to shit. The other performs slightly nicer and gets about 10% better economy with PULP (it likes vortex), but not enough to make it cheaper to run on it.

On a funny side note, one of my past bikes used to run at about 22.5km/l on premium and 20km/l on plain ulp, at the time it worked out to cost me 50 cents less per tank to run premium than it did to run plain ULP.

[fireyrob]

it is an absolute pig to start when i use premium.

I wouldnt have thought that a premium fuel would have any difference to standard ulp cause it'd still detonate appropriately??? But Im happy to be enlightened why this would occur at startup just for interests sake?

[Mattjin]

I have been a dyno tuner for over 20 years and I primarily work these days with emissions compliance, so yeah I understand more about the different fuels and their effect on the tuning of an engine than the average punter.

91 and 95RON are near enough to be identical in fuel tune just differ in ignition tuning due to the octane difference, and is what most engines leave the factory are tuned for. Using these fuels will ensure your engine runs the same Air to Fuel Ratio (AFR) that the factory tuner intended. Whether this is good or not is another story.

98RON fuels are generally more dense. In layman's terms this means that for the same mass of fuel drawn into the cylinders the engine will run richer. This is the reason why most dumb-ass mechanics just blindly swear that the Shell fuel is shit and it is no good for bikes. No it isn't, you just need to either program or jet the engine to suit these fuels. If you run an engine that operates in closed-loop control (it has an O2 sensor in the exhaust), it will start subtracting fuel to get the AFR back to normal and as such you will use LESS fuel and not run rich. Roughly 3-8% less. This usually offsets the extra cost and is well worth it for most vehicles using closed-loop control, especially modern high-compression car engines. If you are still in the dark ages and using carbies (you poor soul), you will need to change jets to correct this. You most likely will not get power gains unless you can alter the ignition mapping to suit the higher octane, and most gains will be in the lower RPM areas.

Ethanol is not the devil the mass media will have you believe it is. E10 has the opposite effect of running 98RON, i.e. it will tend to make the engine run leaner. If you run an engine that operates in closed-loop control it will start adding the extra fuel to get the AFR back to normal and as such you will use more fuel. Roughly 5% more. Any more and you are just riding/driving like a pelican. Ethanol actually lowers hydro-carbon and carbon monoxide emissions and also substantially reduces engine deposits, so I dont know where the "doesnt meet emissions" thing comes from. Long term use, as in years, it will start to dry out rubber fuel lines but you can replace these with more durable hoses these days. It will literally disolve silicon products so that is something to consider. You can get up to E85 (85% ethanol) at the pump, which is roughly 108RON. Use this stuff with any turbo engines and you will be naming your next born as Ethanol! It is pure gold!!! Ethanol fuels are a little harder to start in very cold weather so this also needs to be considered. I have been playing with ethanol blends for many years, so my experience doesnt come from the tabloids.

Now, depending on whether your bike left the factory running too rich or too lean, you can choose a fuel that can help skew your tune in a favourable direction, just so long as it MEETS THE OCTANCE REQUIREMENTS. Dont guess if it is rich or lean, pay some small money and put it on a dyno and find out. Then you can remove all the guess work and use the right fuel all the time. My own Z1000 has been on the dyno many times. It is tuned for 98RON and on this fuel it runs the exact AFRs that I want, via a Power Commander 3. I also added the Ignition Module which allowed me to map the timing for the extra octane. This meant around 7deg more at lower rpm and around 2 more at higher rpm. The end result is more grunt, better economy and a cleaner engine.

On topic, yeah the Vortex 98 is a good fuel. I would say all the 98RON's tune equal, but the Shell sometimes feels just a fraction different. You have to be splitting hairs but I can sometimes notice it. The ethanol blended 98RON and 100RON fuels of course tune differently as previously mentioned, but they are not bad just different.

[dickfaber]

finally some science and sense to this debate!

in the days of yore, when i was a lad, i had a still making ethanol for my cars/bikes/mowers etc. why because i had plenty of biomass, a large shed, a large farm to hid this on and not much else to do.
my personal experiance lines up with the above, ethanol (and i used to run 100%) is an oxygenated fuel and needs more volume to correct it native lean situation. in my applications it was up to 25%. forced induction engines loved it


oh, and if any of you are thinking of following in my footsteps to 'stick it to the man', beware;
1- it is actually evading tax,so mr taxman will not like you
2- to make 1 litre of ethanol required in my case about 700kilos of sugar cane bagasse and takes upto a week to distil
3- it uses open fire (to heat) and running water (to cool) so it smells, hasfire and wastes ridiculous amounts of water
4- a still is a bomb waiting to go off. i stopped making ethanol when my still ran dry one afternoon, and blew the shed up leaving a crater 2 metres deep and 10 metres across. thank christ i wasnt in it at the time

[fireyrob]

Its fn useless if you dont use it all quickly though. We have equipment on the fire pump that has been stuffed because of it. Phase seperation and ethanols affinity for water. Not everyone drives their vehicle all the time. Go overseas for a few months or leave a vehicle 'parked' for a while and the ethanol can be devastating. I have no doubt in race engines or when tuned and used the fuel could be great but its not for everyone until its issues are sorted.