L and P platers

[Nelso]

i understand riding a bike is different to driving but l-plater have to learn as well, i know its best to learn while riding with someone but you cat so this all the time and when you pass ur test you have to ride by your self, what i am trying to say is dont discrimate against people who are trying to learn new things or in some cases re-learn new things, not all l-platers are shit, just because there are a few out who are giving them a bad name doesnt mean they all they all are, i mean if this was your son or daughter trying to learn something new you would encourage them now turn around and say " hey son, your shit i dont think u should do that anymore " what kind of mother or father would that make you " A SHIT ONE " just give them a fair go they paid there rego and taxes and are road users like you and me! respect them and if you see them do something dumb tell them or signal them and them know its now cool, or if you seem them pull into a servo just say hey mate what you did was not a very smart or safe thing, that alone wouls scare the crap out of them and get them thinking about being same, sorry to rant, but we were all learns once and we wouldnt of like people saying trhat about us now

We're not saying all L platers are shit so take a few calming breaths and settle down a bit. Understand that we are fearful for their safety as well as the other people they could take out, so it's not about putting people down, but more about discussing how we could go about improving the situation to help them learn better. The problem with letting people learn new things on their own on the road is that they are doing it blind and are bound to make a mistake or two. Often, learners make mistakes and get away with it because there were no other cars on the road at the time, but sometimes they take out other people like Rooster, who was taken out recently by an uninsured clueless learner, which left him badly injured and out of pocket having to replace his bike.

Through this site we recently came across a learner rider who lived near us and was asking advice. We have offered advice about his bike, riding technique, and gear as well as offered to help him develop his skills. I am completely confident that with his great attitude and a bit of advice that he will end up a more capable and much safer rider as a result and we are more than happy to take the time to help him out for this reason. This is not the first person to be helped by any of us and is just an example of what should be happening for all learners so that they are not clueless and dangerous. So rather than "giving them a fair go" by "leaving them alone" I think we are better off helping them realise what they have got themselves into and helping to keep them (along with other road users) safe.

[h.b.bear]

I could be wrong here,but being a inexpieranced rider i agree about riding with more experianced riders but you blokes can only explain things whilst pulled up after observing the way we ride,which is great but its not like having someone sitting next to you like in a car.What i am trying to say wouldnt it be benifical to a degree if these bike training centres had stimulators so that we can really see what its like to corner at high speeds ect.They must be close to being realastic as they use them to train pilots,astronauts ect

[Leanne]

I think some people are missing the point of Nelso's initial post. He wasn't putting shit on all L and P platers, just pointing out that there are some numpties out there, 2 of which we came across recently, that could really do with some mentoring and improving on their skills. The P plater that crashed in front of me was very wobbly and had little control before he crashed. Yes, he was more concerned about me being behind him then what was going on in front of him and maybe he wouldn't have crashed if I had have went around him, but he was still an accident waiting to happen. I made a decision after seeing how little control he had to drop back for a number of reasons. He was wobbling around in his lane with very little control, the section of road was tight blind corners so I chose to slow down and drop off from behind him to wait for Troy to catch up and a place to go around him that was safer for me. Within two corners of making this decision he crashed. We both suggested to this guy and the guy the other week to go and do a rider training course and also think about getting better protective clothing.

We were all learners once and I remember when I was learning that I was one of those numpties. I had nobody to learn from, I didn't come from a motorcycling background and didn't know anybody that rode motorbikes and I had a point to prove because everyone told me I wouldn't be able to ride a motorbike well because I was a girl. I was a statistic waiting to happen. Fortunately I only had a couple of crashes, and got away with them uninjured, to make me realise that there was a lot more to getting on a bike then turning the throttle. It wasn't until about a year later that I met a bunch of guys that were willing to ride with me, as 20 years ago according to most people girls only held you up, and thanks to those guys I learnt alot about riding just by riding with them. They were all good riders and rode well and a couple were experienced racers. On top of that I also did a couple of rider training courses at Eastern Creek and Oran Park and that also is a big factor in me still being here today to tell the story. Having only ridden for two years I then went racing and my learning curve and skill increased 1,000's fold.

I can say from experience that to improve your road riding you can't beat rider training on a track and learning how to corner and brake properly in a controlled environment at various speeds and I believe that new riders should be stronly encouraged to do a course. I can also say from experience that as a new rider you can learn alot from a mentor and riding with experienced riders. Both of which had a huge impact on my learning curve and ability.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the rider and their willingness to accept it takes time and to seek out the information to learn and improve their skills and importantly to be smart enough to realise that they need to get the technique right before trying to go fast. Unfortunately this last point is difficlut to do when ego gets in the way.

[huffy67]

but we were all learns once and we wouldn't of like people saying that about us now

over 27 years ago there was a hell of a lot less traffic & idiots on the road & no compulsory rider training.... we all learns once but times are different now & considering the helping hand given to all learners there should be more common sense being used .... one would think. I laugh & feel sad watching a Learner squidding, knowing they have done the course & been told the drill about wearing the right gear etc especially at the most vulnerable time in their new found addiction ...... all goes out the window the day after the course ...... just my 2 cents.... Oh & I did a stay upright course before hitting the road, back then, I did a full day one on one course with Warwick from Stay Upright..... just after he opened at Amaroo, best thing I ever did!

I agree with everything here, I just think we can't critizs ( can't spell ) these kids for trying and giving it ago!

[huffy67]

We're not saying all L platers are shit so take a few calming breaths and settle down a bit. Understand that we are fearful for their safety as well as the other people they could take out, so it's not about putting people down, but more about discussing how we could go about improving the situation to help them learn better. The problem with letting people learn new things on their own on the road is that they are doing it blind and are bound to make a mistake or two. Often, learners make mistakes and get away with it because there were no other cars on the road at the time, but sometimes they take out other people like Rooster, who was taken out recently by an uninsured clueless learner, which left him badly injured and out of pocket having to replace his bike.

Through this site we recently came across a learner rider who lived near us and was asking advice. We have offered advice about his bike, riding technique, and gear as well as offered to help him develop his skills. I am completely confident that with his great attitude and a bit of advice that he will end up a more capable and much safer rider as a result and we are more than happy to take the time to help him out for this reason. This is not the first person to be helped by any of us and is just an example of what should be happening for all learners so that they are not clueless and dangerous. So rather than "giving them a fair go" by "leaving them alone" I think we are better off helping them realise what they have got themselves into and helping to keep them (along with other road users) safe.[/quote]

Please don't get me wrong, I agree with everything you have said and I think you have done this learner an awesome thing and taught him things he would have never or almost never have learnt! I wish had guys like you when I was learning

[Daisy]

I do think all new riders should join a recognised (legal) club where they have to do mandatory log book hours with registered mentors before being allowed off L & P plates, then a further year or so with said mentors before becoming open.

Who would decide who is a 'suitable' mentor? I have mentored for 3 years now, but if there were any kind of test it would be like driving instructors - you have to have a "good driving record". I don't. I keep getting speeding tickets and I've lost my licence 3 times. But I've never spontaneously combusted, crashed into a tree that jumped into the road, run over fluffy kittens or small children in a school zone, or made baby Jesus cry ...

and I haven't died even once. But I'd still be deemed unsuitable.

[Daisy]

And the reason you can't teach some of these youngsters is because they haven't grasped the very first lesson -

Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

[Jonno]

I do think all new riders should join a recognised (legal) club where they have to do mandatory log book hours with registered mentors before being allowed off L & P plates, then a further year or so with said mentors before becoming open.

Who would decide who is a 'suitable' mentor? I have mentored for 3 years now, but if there were any kind of test it would be like driving instructors - you have to have a "good driving record". I don't. I keep getting speeding tickets and I've lost my licence 3 times. But I've never spontaneously combusted, crashed into a tree that jumped into the road, run over fluffy kittens or small children in a school zone, or made baby Jesus cry ...

and I haven't died even once. But I'd still be deemed unsuitable.

What? You haven't run over a kitten or 2 in front of little kids and wondered how that will effect their whole life from then on, whats worse you actually stopped for those tickets any wonder you have a bad record just kidding

Hey it is just an idea and I appologise for getting all civil and caring
Rider training centers are already in place, have you got any suggestions or are you happy with the status quo?

And the reason you can't teach some of these youngsters is because they haven't grasped the very first lesson -

Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

As mentioned the back to riding cashed up 40+ year olds are over represented in crash data, and I like that last line.

I have been riding since 1974, Iam one of the 40+ group and have 3 ksrc mentors I run things by regularly and a few others I chat with at times.
It doesnt make me the best rider nor do I really want to be the fastest but wanted to understand more about whats going on and in practice I can see why things work, without that I may just have been another statistic, I know how to be safe but there is plenty to learn.

Others have given me the their time and patience, I care enough to want to pass this on





Maybe I will go back to scowling like a grumpy oldman at a safe distance being the easier option.

[Naked Twin]

Whats wrong with a mankini n helmet?

I wouldn't be surprised if someone has photos of you at least in just your helmet

Is this still bike related?

If the picture contains a bike even if the bike is a poster in the background then yes.

On topic - I think we have to put things into perspective here
1) there are more registered motorcycle riders than ever before as proportion of population. Even greater than the boom years of the late 70s
2) the statistics of serious injuries deaths has decreased dramatically (in NSW since rider training came in)
3) all the training/ teaching in the world is not going to give me the ability of Casey Stoner and some people can't be taught. Object fixation is much harder to train out of a person so is the ability to deal with a panic situation. Some people can simply process more information and are less likely to panic.

Reality is to improve you have to explore the boundaries or limits of your capabilities. I would quantify that with time and place. But how boring would life be if you weren't to live close to the edge?

If I have learnt only one thing in life is you only find out the limit of your capabilities when it runs out. Teaching people to ride within them is much harder especially as you are on a steep learning curve and as such your capabilities are increasing.

No easy solution, as for riding with more experienced riders well that is questionable at best. Would you let your kids be taught by taxi drivers or couriers? I know another sterotype but they are the most experienced on the road. When I was first riding I was given some useless and if not dangerous advice that in many instances wasn't quantified as to any benefit only that it "works". It wasn't until I did superbike school did I realise what a retard I was and that was because I wanted to learn not beacause they were necessarily good teachers, in fact in some instances I questioned them as whilst it made sense on one level I didn't think it should work. In any case I went out and tested there theories to prove they were right (or you could say tyring to prove them wrong)

[dilligaf]

Being a cashed up 40+ myself I've watched a few of the crash statistics cartwheel down the road. Read somewhere its just the same mistakes on more expensive bikes at faster speeds. They are more resistant to training than young guys, which is unfortunate as most of them can afford it and would benefit from it. Very fast in a straight line though. I do a bit of mentoring with my son, but thats more taking him out on roads he can handle and letting him build his skills.
The danger with forums like this is learners read about Reefton or the Kinglake Rd and try them before they're ready.

[seiko1]

Bike Safety - Copy.jpg (37.45 KiB) Viewed 967 times

[6maniac]

Bike Safety - Copy.jpg

And in which direction is the bike heading ? Hopefully, not straight ahead !!!

[seiko1]

Bike Safety - Copy.jpg

And in which direction is the bike heading ? Hopefully, not straight ahead !!!

I think it's two diff scenario's on the one thing.......
I figured that out easy....not as old as you I suppose!

[Possum]

intercoms could be a helpful tool for training/mentoring

[born green]

intercoms we tried years ago and stopped doing that, most found it distracting. And i didnt like it either, but some riding schools in brissy used them, back in the days of on road training