Has this been considered.....?

StuMiller · Post by **StuMiller** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:04 pm

I'm watching Richard Hammond's Engineering Connections show and they are exploring the effects of spoilers on Formula One cars.

My question: have spoilers ever been considered on bikes, given the main intention of a spoiler is to increase downforce, allowing for faster cornering.....

09sydrd · Post by **09sydrd** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:47 pm

i think Casey Stoner used spoilers last year on the Ducati to put extra downforce on the front tyre. i dont bikes go fast enough to warrant them imo, say compared to f1.

Whickle · Post by **Whickle** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:50 pm

In Moto GP they did. Stoner had wing'lets on the duc last season. Mainly to keep the front down on the high speed parts.

EDIT:
Beaten to the punch

StuMiller · Post by **StuMiller** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:01 pm

Why only Stoner? Surely they would add some advantage?

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:22 pm

winglets are only a bit effective on a bike...if at all

coz unlike a car a lot of the time you are off the vertical (as in tipped in or goingn around corners_
also a bike's face is vertical as against a car which is horizontal

and finally ...a wing big enough to be effective would be so wide as to effect a bikes lean in corners
no use having a big wing if its going to tip you off on the next corner

Spex · Post by **Spex** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:24 pm

I think the main problem with bikes is that they're constantly changing position in relation to the road, so it's hard to engineer any kind of downforce that won't become create lateral force when the bike changes lean angle. Besides, any downforce you create mid-turn would act on the bike/rider rather than the contact patch, so it'll just pull you towards the ground.

Also, the rider is a massive aerodynamic problem. Constantly changing shape and position, and with all these nooks and crannies that just end up creating turbulence. Hard to design an aerodynamic solution that'll work with the rider hanging off.

StuMiller · Post by **StuMiller** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:40 pm

They designed gyroscopic cameras to remain horizontal...maybe it has merit....

laidback · Post by **laidback** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:59 pm

Don't forget that wings also create drag. F1s have a lot of power and can overcome the effect of drag and look at this year in F1, they have adjustable wings and that allows up to about 20kph difference I think..

Supafrog · Post by **Supafrog** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:33 pm

wait on.

I'm sure there are canards on some bikes already? doesn't the 12R fairing have protruding canards? They aren't wings... and not sur eif they do anything for dowforce... but they must be there for a reason?

Six Addict · Post by **Six Addict** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:35 am

Supafrog wrote:wait on.

I'm sure there are canards on some bikes already? doesn't the 12R fairing have protruding canards? They aren't wings... and not sur eif they do anything for dowforce... but they must be there for a reason?

yeah they gave the designer something to do, and the marketer something to write about

as mentioned the biggest factors against are the lean angles, and the fact that infront of the rear of the bike, where you would place a large spoiler, is a rider that constantly changes shape... also refer to laidback's comment on drag...

Spex · Post by **Spex** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:53 am

Just because it looks cool, a CFD visualisation of the airflow over a BMW:

I think the surface colours represent air velocity (the 'hotter' the colour, the faster the airflow), and the red cloudy bits are turbulence.

Damon Z1000 · Post by **Damon Z1000** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:57 am

Easy ZX12................Winglets

: winglet.JPG (16.18 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:18 pm

Damon Z1000 wrote:Easy ZX12................Winglets

winglet.JPG

yep winglets...not!

according to Kawasaki they are airflow separators
used to prevent turbulent air from the front wheel
disturbing airflow along the rear upper section of the fairing
reducing drag and allowing a higher top speed

..source my ZX12R Ninja Silver book... Page 30
so there you go

webcase · Post by **webcase** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:22 pm

StuMiller wrote:Why only Stoner? Surely they would add some advantage?

Simonchelli had some odd bits tacked on to his bike last year due to his size.Not as aero as midgets Stoner and Pedrosa.

Post by **Wattie** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:17 pm

Super Sic's Honda is still slightly different to the others. He has wider parts on the front of his bike to get the air around his arms and legs.

Carol Abraham is running the wings on his duc at some races. Hayden had them on at a few races also.

It's personal choice and track dependent. They were originally added to help hold wheelies down and improve weight on the front. I feel that Ducati weren't interested in changing their whole bikes design for Stoner, so they made some fancy fairings to show they cared.

Rossi comes along and hey presto new bike!!

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