NSW margin for error on speeding reduced to zero

[mike-s]

There are two topics being dealt with in this thread, the "discretionary limit" and the abilities of drivers.

I can understand and respect the theory of "lowest common denominator", but still some people on the roads couldn't even qualify as that. Being stuck behind someone else doing 15-30 under the limit on any road is a pain in the arse, but i bite my tounge when it's a smaller road as there is often little you can do. However when it is a main road and you are stuck behind said twat in the middle/right lane it is immensely frustrating. Moving left to get out of the way (if practical and safe) is all that I ask so i can get past you and we can both be on our way, thankyou. I'm thankful that only a fraction of my driving is in peak hour traffic, two mornings every 8 days as i return home from nightshift. Every other time, to or from work i don't have a problem and when I am on my rostered days off i do my damndest to try and be off the roads in peak hour unless i have somewhere to go and need to be on the road at that time. My condolences to you poor bastards whom have to do it every day, Monday to Friday as traffic at that times is frankly shit, just utter shit. Consideration on the roads is severely lacking as just like a large segment of people on the internet, they think they are anonymous and acting selfish or a cock towards others won't have repercussions for them. This attitude of self importance rather than doing what'll make everything work smoother overall needs to seriously be addressed. Training and education is the key to things like this, but i can't see anything happening in this regard, partly because of the assumption of people thinking they are better than they are on the roads and driving like nutters, rather than being able to understand their own abilities better and hopefully be able to make smarter judgement calls in what they do. Nothing is going to stop 19 year olds doing donuts in carparks or drag races along the M4 at 3:00AM, aside from tire spikes and a shitload of coppers waiting for them.

The second issue is government mismanagement and the short term gain getting in the way of the longer term loss. Sure the government can boast about the quantity of money they made by selling the airport, selling electrical facilities, selling Telstra. But they gave up a MASSIVE longer term stake in gaining revenue and being more financially stable to get a headline in a couple of newspapers, a few pats on the back and a nice big positive cashflow for that financial year. What about looking at the longer term, ten years, fiften years, fourty years? Basically because of the selling off of these assets, we the population get bent over and fucked up the arse with lower speed limits, more easily broken rules and a government (state or federal regardless) that is so cash strapped that these "easy" offences have gone from being primarily being a safety issue to being a core feature in next years budget. A prime example is the mobile speed cameras being run by a private company for the government. The RTA boasted that they had budgetted on netting 132 MILLION in the first year of the camera operations, and the money from that had been accounted for in the budget rather than being put to a more appropriate use such as allocated to a "road safetytrainingwhatever" budget. Further to this i personally think that although it sucks to be pulled up by a copper for doing the wrong thing, i would MUCH rather that than get a letter in the mail 2-5 weeks later saying "hey, you know that money you worked for? we want some because you screwed up a little while ago". I have nothing but contempt for the government with big fucking holes they have dug themselves with their eyes being fixated on the short term profit at the expense of our long term prosperity as a country.

[edit]A perfect example o short term gain, long term loss is the M5 East. The state was given the option by the contracted builders of increasing the lanes from 2 to 3 in the tunnel for a "mere" 10% increase in cost at the time of construction. The government/rta/minister for transport baulked at spending that (not insubstantial, but also wisely invested) money in favour of only spending on 2 lanes as it would be at least 2 maybe 4 terms before the shortsightedness would screw everything/everyone up. Now they are forced to contemplate spending at least the same, if not a LARGER quantity of money to either perform long term night-works to make it 3 lanes or to provide an alternattive to increase capacity somewhere, somehow.[/edit]

Thankyou for your time.

[dutchy]

seriously, if a copper pulled you over on a freeway and told you what you were doing was dangerous, you'd take it a bit more serious than a b-double driver having a sook to the local rag.

Trouble is, they don't pull them over and tell them - and as a consequence the numpties believe they haven't done anything wrong.

It will never matter what you tell the "numpties". You could pull them over for doing 80kmh through a 40kmh school zone and give them the all the worst case scenarios under the sun and they'll still give you a sarcastic "yeah righto". Some people just don't give a shit. They think they are in total control and don't understand that any number of outside influences could result in negative consequences.

It could be worse. Maybe we should swing the margin both ways, you know, to be fair to all parties involved instead of showing favouritism to the drivers. I can see it now............. "My speed detection device has measured you travelling at 103kmh but with a 3kmh margin of error, we can make it 106kmh"

Higher range of speeding, more demerits, higher fines and I bet that alot more drivers would stay fairly clear of the speed limit.

[Duane]

[fireyrob]

Cant believe this is still going. And how easily ppl around here bite lately. Lighten up peep's this is getting ridiculous

[zx6rider]

It will never matter what you tell the "numpties". You could pull them over for doing 80kmh through a 40kmh school zone and give them the all the worst case scenarios under the sun and they'll still give you a sarcastic "yeah righto". Some people just don't give a shit. They think they are in total control and don't understand that any number of outside influences could result in negative consequences.

Totally agree with this comment...

No matter what the speed, what the penalty or what the conditions, there will always be certain individuals out there who will know better, and just dont care about anything other than themselves, these are the people who cause the problems, and these are the people who will keep flaunting the rules, no matter what changes are made by authority's.

[zx6rider]

Cant believe this is still going. And how easily ppl around here bite lately. Lighten up peep's this is getting ridiculous

Also totally agree with this as well...

[Nelso]

Unfortunately due the large range or people in this world and being a democracy where we don't want to leave people behind, we need to have rules that meant to cater for the majority, those rules/ law whether we like it or not bring order.

Ever seen what happens when there no lines marked for a que, it is anarchy people are sheep and need to follow rules. We may argue the effectiveness of some and whether they are appropriate, but there is no point having enforcement officers if they can't enforce them. It is a bit like the people who complain about parking tickets, sure when you want a spot and there isn't one due to someone overstaying we want them moved, but when it is us who has overstayed and we get a ticket well burn them officers at the stake.

Yes there are some officers of the law that are turds, that percentage is probably reflective of the general population.

I read a paper on people's behaviour (part of a selling management course) where it showed that those who most opposed the rules and enforcers of such rules when given the chance to be the enforcer were the least empathetic/ considerate and much more vigilant than those who don't oppose the rules. Would be interesting to see if such liberal ideas would be applied by those who so oppose the enforcement.

In short speed, don't speed but don't bitch when we get caught.

It's a good thing that there have never been any unjust or stupid laws then. Imagine if people had never complained about the laws that didn't allow women or non white people to vote, or slavery in the USA, or apartheid in South Africa. I'm all for law enforcement when it is to benefit society, but the laws we are discussing here only benefit a poorly run government at the expense of many well intended socially contributing people, just because they are an easy target. Why do the government keep directing more and more police and RTA resources to this cause (raising funds) when there are other areas of policing and traffic management that would have a far greater positive effect on society and are severely underfunded? Should we just remain quiet and let them abuse their power or should we have our say and recommend better ways of making our roads safer?

[Daisy]

It's a good thing that there have never been any unjust or stupid laws then. Imagine if people had never complained about the laws that didn't allow women or non white people to vote, or slavery in the USA, or apartheid in South Africa. I'm all for law enforcement when it is to benefit society, but the laws we are discussing here only benefit a poorly run government at the expense of many well intended socially contributing people, just because they are an easy target. Why do the government keep directing more and more police and RTA resources to this cause (raising funds) when there are other areas of policing and traffic management that would have a far greater positive effect on society and are severely underfunded? Should we just remain quiet and let them abuse their power or should we have our say and recommend better ways of making our roads safer?

Nelso for deputy PM.

[Glen]

I don't reckon they'll do it but if they do then so be it.

I've now been riding/ driving for 32 years and I would pretty confidently say that I have exceeded the speed limits every day in those 32 years without fail, sometimes by massive margins. Why then have I never had an accident in those 32 years (except for getting t boned by a guy coming through a stop sign in 1983). Because I don't ride/drive like a knob head and I reckon I can handle a vehicle reasonably well. I don't have a problem with the cops enforcing speed zones because it's their job and if they catch me then good on them.

The unfortunate fact is that speed is the great evil because it is the easiest to enforce and it's the easiest to prove as a major contributing factor. No one can argue that hitting a wall at 40 is worse then hitting one at 80. Unfortunately there are thousands of people on our roads who can't handle a vehicle at the speed limits but still get a license and still cause the majority of accidents but our police force happily ignore them.

My point........, speed is always going to be the issue because it's the easy option to enforce and it's the most emotive. Unfortunately it's not the real issue

[philbo]

Oh shit...here we go again. Lets have a massive back and fourth about speeding.

How about we hijack and discuss this instead

http://www.funnymos.com/wife-on-terrori ... l#more-523

Or we could try doing like we are doing now and have a debate where everyone is entitled to their opinion, without the need to resort to offensive name calling.

Except Dave inferred I was inconsiderate.

I called the act "not courteous"... I have other names for you

You should see the carnage that happens when someone is doing 7km/h under the speed limit in morning traffic on Parramatta road.

you can do the speed limit on parra road?

[Gosling1]

.......I've now been riding/ driving for 32 years and I would pretty confidently say that I have exceeded the speed limits every day in those 32 years without fail, sometimes by massive margins. Why then have I never had an accident in those 32 years (except for getting t boned by a guy coming through a stop sign in 1983). Because I don't ride/drive like a knob head and I reckon I can handle a vehicle reasonably well. I don't have a problem with the cops enforcing speed zones because it's their job and if they catch me then good on them..........

Agree 100%.

(Except for the bit about not having an accident..... )

I reckon the few times I have been done for speeding - are far outweighed by the number of times I *could* have been caught speeding. So on the odd occasion that it happens - just accept it as part 'n' parcel of driving.

On a country road with a 110kmh speed advisory - yes, I think its a great idea to sit at 100kmh with a B-double fair up my arse !!! .....not

[LachlanMann]

oh dear. Just hope QLD doesn't follow.

Only 2 years till i get my degree and i can move out of our once great country

[h.b.bear]

I'd trust the opinion of a well trained police officer over someone who drives trucks for a living.... just me.

so if youd been racing bikes all your life and new them inside out and one day a well trained officer pulls you up,you cant tell me your not going to sit there and say yes sir no sir while he lectures you on your ability or the way you were ridding , and if you did listen to him the first thing youd be saying once at the pub is...this idiot copper pulled me over today ect .ect.

[Duane]

I'd trust the opinion of a well trained police officer over someone who drives trucks for a living.... just me.

so if youd been racing bikes all your life and new them inside out and one day a well trained officer pulls you up,you cant tell me your not going to sit there and say yes sir no sir while he lectures you on your ability or the way you were ridding , and if you did listen to him the first thing youd be saying once at the pub is...this idiot copper pulled me over today ect .ect.

If I'd been racing bikes all my life and I chose to ride on public roads like I ride at a race track & got caught. I deserve to cop it on the chin.

Infact, if I choose to break any road law on my bike on public roads and get caught for it, not only do I deserve the lecture but I also deserve the fine/punishment.

However, If a truck driver who drives from Lara to Melbourne 5 times a day decided to give me a spray for the way I was riding, I'd be at the pub saying 'this idiot truckie...'

Maybe I have different experiences with the police than everyone else, but they have helped me far greater than what i've been punished/caught for by them and appreciate the truely ugly/dirty job they have to do.

[javaman]

In a car I do 5kph under most of the time. Speed limit is the speed limit.

But in a bike I'd do 5-10kph above speed limit. It's 'safety insurance' and I'd happily pay the fine if caught.

On a bike, on a quiet mountain road, I'd be happy to ride at WOT, and dropping down to mentioned speed around town.

All about balancing fun, safety, and wallet I guess. Hence I've never been fined for speeding.