some one with some common sense

[philbo]

MOTOR racing champion Mark Skaife has called for speed limits on Victorian freeways to be increased up to 140km/h in a major revamp of the state's road safety strategy.
Skaife, the most successful driver in Australian touring car history, urged the Brumby Government to feel the need for speed by lifting the legal limit by up to 30km/h on major Victorian roads.

The Holden racing great said he wanted tougher driver testing, more expensive licensing, better roads and a ban on dangerous vehicles on our highways.

"Speed Kills is not necessarily the silver bullet," Skaife said.

And he urged police to shift their focus from speeding to other traffic offences to cut the state's road toll - currently at 147.

EastLink, the Princes Freeway between Melbourne and Geelong and the Hume Highway are all earmarked for speed increases under Skaife's proposal to relax existing road rules.

Police, fearing a traditionally horrific Queen's Birthday weekend road toll, have booked almost 2500 people since Friday.

kaife said speed was not necessarily to blame for accidents and urged authorities to lift the legal limit.

"Our roads are very, very good so there's no way in the world that our speed limits couldn't be 130 or 140 km/h," he said.

Skaife, an Order Of Australia medal recipient in 2004, said the Brumby Government and police should focus more on dodgy drivers rather than speeding.

"We must encourage young people to drive safer, in newer cars, encourage the Government to design better roads and safer roads and our driver-learner system has to get better," he said.

"If you get those three things right, definitely you will improve the road toll."

While he earmarked three of Victoria's busiest highways as obvious places where speed increases could be ushered in, Skaife said limits on many of the state's roads should be reviewed.

"I don't see why any of them shouldn't have a higher speed limit in non-peak periods," he said.

Skaife, who recently returned from a five-day driving safety study tour of Germany, said the mentality of Australian drivers needed to change.

He said it should be harder and more expensive to get a driver's licence.

He also said the Rudd Government should adopt the German model of stimulus spending - encouraging people to trade in old bombs and buy new, safer cars.

"Australians are very polite, beautiful people, but as soon as we close the door on a car we're the total opposite. We actually accelerate to stop people coming into our lane," he said. "The whole thing is about etiquette and simple good manners."

He also said Victorian authorities should book tailgating drivers.

Last year, 290 people were killed on Victoria's roads and 7000 were seriously injured. Victoria Police refused to comment on Skaife's proposal.

Skaife's tour of Germany will screen tonight on Channel 7's Sunday Night.

[mike-s]

*pinky in mouth*
interesting

[mick_dundee]

Speed limit increases in Mexico, suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for the headline..

[aardvark]

Saw that story... yet another person with "on the face of it" answers, whilst failing to take into account the measures required to put it in place. I doubt you'll find a politician or copper who doesn't agree that improved roads, safer cars and better training are the answer. Mr Skaife (and let me voice my bias here and admit I dislike the man) has simply stated the obvious.

Here are some of the things not taken into account:
a) The cost of funding the necessary repairs to our highways to bring them up to the German autobahn standard. Speaking of which, parts of the autobahn were completed in 1932, so the Germans have a slight head start on us. I doubt too many Australians in 1932 would have considered that we would ever need such a road system. I think it is also important to consider the growth of the autobahn system during World War II, when the Nazis realised how important it could be for the rapid mobilisation of military units. Also of importance is that the autobahn is currently about 12,200km in length, over a fairly dense area. Australia's Highway 1 is over 14,500km alone and spread right over the country. The picture below will help to explain the difference between the two systems.

Getting back to the funding. The population of Australian is about 22 million. The population in Germany is over 82 million! The German tax system in terms of rates is not entirely dissimilar to our own. The German government is certainly in a better position to build and maintain roads.

b) Not all roads in Germany have unlimited speed limits. Between 2500 and 3000km of the total autobahn network is unlimited. Areas of the autobahn with speed limits, and speed limits in towns (50km/h) are aggressively policed. Speed limits also apply to certain vehicles on the autobahn, for example; cars towing trailers and buses are limited to 100km/h, and most trucks are limited to 80km/h. Of those areas of the autobahn with unlimited speed limits, the chance of reaching ridiculously high speeds is slim due to massive congestion problems.

c) The cost of obtaining your licence in Germany is in excess of $2,000!! The average cost of obtaining a licence in Australia is $300. Who is going to pay for our "better drivers"? You as a tax payer or the person sitting the test? If the onus is on the person sitting the test, I can assure you, that the number of unlicenced drivers will increase dramatically. The increased cost to the tax payer when these drivers crash is not worth thinking about.

d) A lot of young people in this country have their first car purchased for them by their parents. Who is going to suddenly fit the bill for a brand new VE as opposed to the VR Calais? Maybe Mr Skaife could reach into his pocket for your children?

I can understand the reasoning behind Skaifes story. He faced bankruptcy a few years ago, his racing career is as good as over and he needs to earn a living. Commentating for the V8 SuperCar series can only pay so many of the bills.

It's a shame that these stories don't take into account the big picture.

[Mattjin]

Education is the answer. I am not sure what is happening these days, but I went through the school system without every being taught a single thing about the road. If school is there to educate us for use in our daily life, why isnt driving taught as a compulsory subject from at least Year 7? Even half an hour per week is not alot to ask for. Instead, we have kids who most have grown up in a life of bubble wrap and suddenly have to control a deadly vehicle, along with an "I dont give a shit" attitude. Not all are like that, but I am sure alot of people know where I am coming from. Time spent on a driving simulator.... anything but nothing.... would be alot better. I had a mate in high school who had zero experience with cars and no idea how to drive. We got him playing an game called Indy 500 which taught him how to steer, hit the apex, understand camber and tyre loadings. He ended up a driver I felt more than safe to be in the car with. Even a psycological attack similar to the pinky ads, to try and make driving like a total cock socially unacceptable.

The same goes for being on the bike. I got my licence back in the 80's before compulsory training, but even so I did a Stay Upright course out at Amaroo. Some of the most valuable slices of information were drummed into my head there. Every car on the road is going to pull out in front of you. And every car behind you cant see you, so make yourself as visible as possible. Touch wood I havent had an "off" on the bike yet. All from a little education... nothing to do with skill.

[Daisy]

c) The cost of obtaining your licence in Germany is in excess of $2,000!! The average cost of obtaining a licence in Australia is $300. Who is going to pay for our "better drivers"? You as a tax payer or the person sitting the test? If the onus is on the person sitting the test, I can assure you, that the number of unlicenced drivers will increase dramatically. The increased cost to the tax payer when these drivers crash is not worth thinking about.

Oh ok, so let's just give up then. Although ... don't we already pay more to get a bike licence? Isn't it mandatory to have (at least basic) professional training? Seems to work ok.
If the roads are suddenly full of unlicenced drivers you could busy yourself fining the fuckers - much like you do with speeders now, except that it really would be about safety.

d) A lot of young people in this country have their first car purchased for them by their parents. Who is going to suddenly fit the bill for a brand new VE as opposed to the VR Calais? Maybe Mr Skaife could reach into his pocket for your children?

Its all very well to bang on about newer, safer cars. If drivers were better trained the likelihood of crashing an older car decreases, therefore the car must be 'safer'. Lets be honest - traction control and the like simply makes it easier for dumbarses to stay on the road and airbags are only to reduce the damage when you crash. I'm probably out of step again, but I thought the idea was to not crash????
There are certain people who have a vested interest in everyone buying a new car and I don't think its the Road Safety Council.

[aardvark]

There are certain people who have a vested interest in everyone buying a new car and I don't think its the Road Safety Council.

Like Mr Skaife and his associates Holden and Mercedes??

c) The cost of obtaining your licence in Germany is in excess of $2,000!! The average cost of obtaining a licence in Australia is $300.

Oh ok, so let's just give up then. Although ... don't we already pay more to get a bike licence? Isn't it mandatory to have (at least basic) professional training? Seems to work

You seem to have misunderstood where I stand on this matter Daisy, and I apologise for not making it clearer as your use of the ":roll:" seems to indicate that your response is directed at me, on a slightly personal level.

So, to make you aware of my stance. I am 100% behind increasing the cost of obtaining and retaining a licence. I am also 100% behind the increase of training required to obtain a licence. I am also, and you probably wont find this surprising, 100% behind fining the unlicenced fuckers out of existence.

[waynemorgan]

While there are some instances when a higher speed limit are appealing my first thought is....do I really want that businessman talking on his mobile and not noticing me as he merges, going faster? Or the tradesman in the ute who has never understood why indicators exist? Or the lady in the 4wd chatting on the mobile while adjusting her makeup while her kids are partying in the back.

For me personally I'd like to see the roads being made safer by actively policing these kinds of situations rather than just seeing a camera on the side of the road. Unfortunately I can't see that happening. I just don't see the resources being affordable. I also don't see the "Speed Kills" campaign really saving lives.

Agree with Ardy on the more training / fining of unlic drivers / riders - 100% on that one.

[Daisy]

There are certain people who have a vested interest in everyone buying a new car and I don't think its the Road Safety Council.

Like Mr Skaife and his associates Holden and Mercedes??

Egg Zachary. Just because the manufacturers would like you to buy their product, so as to increase their profits, doesn't mean that it is a good thing for the rest of us.

You seem to have misunderstood where I stand on this matter Daisy, and I apologise for not making it clearer as your use of the ":roll:" seems to indicate that your response is directed at me, on a slightly personal level.

I apologise. It was not meant to be personal. The was at the "... the number of unlicenced drivers will increase ..." which is regularly trotted out as a reason to put it in the too hard basket.

[seiko1]

Do we have a fifth amendment here?
I'll take it anyway on the grounds that I don't want to upset a SA coppa at this stage

[aardvark]

Do we have a fifth amendment here?
I'll take it anyway on the grounds that I don't want to upset a SA coppa at this stage

Nope, we don't. I'm always up for a good argument as I find it intellectually rewarding. Provided of course, that we have an intelligent debate, as opposed to the one line retorts that normally happen here when someone disagrees with someone elses opinion. I'm pretty much over that.

[seiko1]

Do we have a fifth amendment here?
I'll take it anyway on the grounds that I don't want to upset a SA coppa at this stage

Nope, we don't. I'm always up for a good argument as I find it intellectually rewarding. Provided of course, that we have an intelligent debate, as opposed to the one line retorts that normally happen here when someone disagrees with someone elses opinion. I'm pretty much over that.

Oh you don't know what your talking about you idiot

[aardvark]

Provided of course, that we have an intelligent debate, as opposed to the one line retorts that normally happen here when someone disagrees with someone elses opinion. I'm pretty much over that.

Oh you don't know what your talking about you idiot

Did I also forget to mention the lack of depth to most of those one line retorts?

[seiko1]

How's this then

Deep Ocean.jpg (44.27 KiB) Viewed 464 times

[aardvark]

How's this then

Deep Ocean.jpg

How deep is that exactly?