Are cops trying to get everyone to hate them?

[swabio-ACT]

Lol!

How about that poor nut up the coast, I think it was, that got shot because he was wielding a knife. Shows how poor our police force's training is if they have to shoot some prick charging at them with a knife, they can't handle the situation any better.

You clay, must be kidding.... you obviously have no idea how much damage even a little 2- 3 inch blade can do..... I'd suggest that if you see someone pull a blade on you, to turn around and leg it as fast as you can..... because, I would go nowhere near the fucker, and would have no qualms at all in shooting the prick who had a knife.... Do a bit of research into knife fighting and look at the results ..... even in the hands of novice's... they are a lethal weapon, and need to be dealt with as such.....

Oh BTW, here is a pretty good example of why cops shoot instead of attempting to disarm.....

VERY GRAPHIC>>>> NSFW

http://blogidaho.blogspot.com/2007/01/w ... nives.html

http://blogidaho.biz/knifewounds1.jpg
http://blogidaho.biz/knifewounds2.jpg
http://blogidaho.biz/knifewounds3.jpg

[robracer]

That fair enough Richard, seeing those pics brings the message home...... I want to know why there are not more police shootings that are more shoot to wound than shoot to kill.
a dude shot in the legs is not going to charge you, If you shot is good enough, I know that it is easier to shoot the body mass but I put the question out to the cops here what the basic trained method is.

Oh & this thread has gowne way off topic anyway

[swabio-ACT]

That fair enough Richard, seeing those pics brings the message home...... I want to know why there are not more police shootings that are more shoot to wound than shoot to kill.
a dude shot in the legs is not going to charge you, If you shot is good enough, I know that it is easier to shoot the body mass but I put the question out to the cops here what the basic trained method is.

Oh & this thread has gowne way off topic anyway

Hey Rob... obviously I am not a cop..... but have don a bit of shooting over the years... IMHO.... the reason is, short barreled weapons are difficult to shoot due tot he slightest movement of the weapon in the hand being exaggerated every meter from the barrel. To try and shoot someone in a 'less-than lethal' zone such as legs or arms / shoulder etc... when the person being shot is generally moving, and the shooters adrenalin levels are up.... is asking for misses... then you have the additional risk of ricochet's etc..... remember the bullet doesn't stop unless it hits something.... (well generally speaking, obviously it will stop and lose power over distance....)

Also, the decision to shoot someone is not taken lightly, there has to be a genuine lethal threat to another person.... so to negate the threat you attempt to hit the easiest part..... that for the tard being shot is the biggest part.... the torso.... or centre of seen mass..... unfortunately or fortunately depending on personal points of view... that centre of seen mass houses pretty much all that is needed to sustain life......

that is my theory... obviously one of the boys in blue can provide info on the actual police policies / training etc if able to.

[aardvark]

Oh & this thread has gowne way off topic anyway

Yep, way off topic - but that's the KSRC way.

I know that it is easier to shoot the body mass but I put the question out to the cops here what the basic trained method is.

Do yourself a favour, go to the shooting range, do as many pushups as you can, run around until you're out of breath, get your mate to punch you in the face a few times and then, as fast as you can, take a shot. In times of intense stress, when your first shot may be the only one you get to take it pays to shoot at the biggest target you can.

Shooting at hands/feet/legs is a pointless exercise. A person can travel about 7 meters in a second. Imagine someone pulling a knife and running at you, then having to shoot with less than a second to react. You want to stop the threat, not hit the offender in the hand and piss them off a little bit more!

[robracer]

Shooting range... been there arty, had a shooters license for 6 years but no hand guns.... so no idea about the accuracy.
as for your explanation & Richards, spot on guyz makes a hell of allot more sense.

[laidback]

When I did some security training a few years ago the trainer described a shoutout (in USA I think) cops on one side of a car and bad guys on otherside...28 shots fired...noone hit.

They also told us that if you shoot a weapon it must be done with the understanding that you will probably kill the target. Fire 2 shots at the chest and the first will probably hit the chest and it the second goes higher because of recoil it will probably hit neck or head...guns are meant to kill.

Maybe training has changed since then but a drug crazed dude with a knife will not stop if you shoot him in the toe.

My 2c worth...

[Ratmick]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, there is already a lot of strong opinion and mine means jack.

However I’ll add mine to the hubbub as I feel it needs saying. In my humble opinion guys this is getting a bit nasty, this is the second thread that has gone bad in the last month. What the hell is going on?

I find it a bit disappointing .

The various police forces perform a necessary public duty, and believe me society would be much worse off without them. Yes, you are going to get the odd power-hungry guy with a badge/gun/bike/fast car and a point to prove, but the overwhelmingly significant majority are doing the job for the right reasons. In my opinion you get psychopaths in any public or private company and in every section and level of society and a significant proportion of bad managers exhibit psychopathic behaviour.

What people seem to forget that no-one makes these people join the force and no-one makes them stick at it year after year even though they see the worst of what society has to offer. Hats off and kudos to all of you guys and girls in blue. I don't think I am strong enough mentally to do your job as I have trouble with detaching myself from people's suffering and the constant empathy would cripple me.

At the risk of being overwhelmingly flamed as I have been before when pointing this sort of thing out and being deemed some type of wowser/stick in the mud/boring old naive fart/insignificant short-arsed bald fermented piece of rat turd/whatever let me say this to all of you guys who have been sprung doing the wrong thing.

If you knowingly break the law for whatever reason then the only person you can rant and rail against when you're caught and fined/sentenced is yourself.

Yes the laws may be unjust and out of proportion (I think the fine for the unregistered trailer was a bit harsh) but they are the laws and if you choose not to abide to them then there are penalties to be paid. If you know what the penalties are and choose to break the law anyway then what the point of blaming anyone else?

I acknowledge there is a bit of a grey area when you unknowingly or unwittingly break the law, and this is probably where there could be some discussion or mediation after the fact, but I don't have an answer for this. The ways laws are written makes them appear black or white, wrong or right, there isn't any grey. There will be a reason why the trailer fine is so disproportionately high, but this wouldn't be explained at the time the fine was issued...I guessing it wouldn't be much consolation for the finee either, but at least they'd know where it came from .

I spent some time reading through the Blog with the knife wound pictures. I've shot a few weapons in my time, mostly small arms and a couple of larger calibres (not that many) and I’m reasonably comfortable handling firearms. Having said that I still wouldn't like to take on a psycho with a blade, anyone that thinks otherwise read the website posted earlier with the graphic pictures. Apparently it was a just a box-cutter, not a Marine Corps K-Bar, bayonet or large serrated blade.

Have a read of this too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill and you may understand why they shoot the someone off their head on crack with the knife in the torso.

And before anyone goes down the path of labelling me (I’ve had that before too from 'enlightened' work colleagues) let me say this. Just because I have handled firearms and own a firearm and have an opinion doesn’t make me a psycho. I wouldn't like to and don’t want to shoot anyone, for much the same reason why I couldn’t be a policeman.

I will have no compunction eventually putting a .22 round into the head/torso of the fox that bit the heads off my chooks though.

Pax guys.

Mick

[clay]

I've been stabbed before. And I've disarmed someone with a knife who tried to stab me whilst trying to jump me at Granville train station and someone with a broken bottle, trying to stab me, at the old pool room at Parra. The time I was stabbed was from behind with no warning. I've witnessed two friends disarm would be attackers wielding knives.

I'd expect our police force to have much better training than me and my mates and be much better equipped than police are.

I'd rather have a bat or extendable baton in my hand whilst fighting someone with a knife. Than me have a knife and them the bat. Personally, I'd rather all fights be solved with fists, or no fights at all, but I'm not delusional either.

With the money and resources at the disposal of the government, police should be better trained and equipped. A man with a knife should not be a match for multiple police officers who should have shields, tasers, batons, capsicum spray, tear gas, masks, rubber bullets and other tools capable of disarming an untrained and irrational bloke.

Aardvark, not trying to sound half educated. And I wasn't asking for your reply or opinion, just voicing mine. Think what you like, I'm in no hurry to have a drink with you either. Not with a cop who doesn't mind switching off on the job because you've "heard it all before and it's a massive waste of effort". That's what gets people shot and killed.

[swabio-ACT]

That's what gets people shot and killed.

People being fuckwits and a threat to others is what gets people shot and killed by police......

[clay]

And to whoever posted those pics and that story. The guy with the blade must've have the jump on the police officer big time!

I know the security guard who managed to unclip and draw his firearm from his holster to shoot the man with a screw driver trying to stab him from a few feet away at Cabramatta. Your reaction time is less than a second from such a distance. He managed to avoid being stabbed, which is remarkable.

In such a situation you don't have the advantage of planning and determining the most effective course of action. All you have is your reflexes and ability to react.

From what I heard this wasn't the case in the police shooting I mentioned earlier.

[clay]

That's what gets people shot and killed.

People being fuckwits and a threat to others is what gets people shot and killed by police......

I never said by police.

But yep, attitudes such as what I stated and what you mention do exactly that.

[ty]

I wasn't really going to post further as I didn't want to exacerbate the situation - but this is nuts.

Clay you say you've had history with police - and I think there's your problem. You were at the wrong end of the law, so of course you hate them, or at least have a clouded opinion. You freely admitted you didn't deal with them amicably.

In my opinion cops have guns both for defence, and for the THREAT. Criminals should know that THREAT as real, and be weighing that threat against their intent to do harm to anyone - cop or otherwise. A cop has a gun - if you attack him with a knife you should consider the real chance of being shot.

I'm not saying cops should shoot to kill in any/all threats - but I'm also not going to second guess a cop's decision, in a threatening situation, about the best way to deal with that threat. Some idiot who doesn't know how to use a knife can be disarmed - if you're willing to risk being 'accidentally' sliced. Regardless of what street situation you claim to have been in I know this for fact. I've had 7years martial arts training, 4 of which in weapons, and I know that the only way to SAFELY deal with someone who knows how to use a knife is using a weapon with longer reach. Is a baton enough? NO - a knife can be thrown, and unless you're Jackie Chan in a movie, or have had martial arts training since you could walk, you're not going to be able to bat it out of the air. Sometimes you can tell if someone knows how to use the knife they have - sometimes you can't.

In my opinion the current cotton-wool society we have around cops shooting guns is a big problem - criminals know they can get away with more because the THREAT of being shot is less real. They know a cop is less likely to actually shoot than they used to be, because society victimises the criminals.

Having been on the wrong side of the law I can see how you may object to that.

[smithy5]

Can someone please award this "Worst thread of the year" and then archive it never to be seen again cause it isn't going to die of natural causes.

[seiko1]

and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

[Jaykay]

Fark, the first two pages were making for a good read while board at work... But that all just seemed to go down hill sooo damn quickly. Tis the season to be jolly peeps....