Riding with unlicenced riders / people on unregistered bikes

[Cath]

There was a conversation the other day about how people feel about riding with people who are either unlicenced, unlicenced for the bike they're riding or riding an unregistered bike. I'll call them un-riders, to save me having to type up the whole unlicenced, unregistered thing. I'm talking about a group ride, not just up the street and back to test out mechanical changes, etc.

My immediate response was a visceral "No way. I'd tell them to fuck right off. Don't want that sort of risk when out riding with mates." But then as we all talked some more, I became a little conflicted as we were trying to figure what, if any, effect it would have on the other riders. I could only think of two real effects it could have on me.

1) In the event of a crash caused by the un-rider, there would be no ability to claim on their third-party insurance, as their insurance would be wiped. Now, when I think of people riding uninsured, I think they're dickheads, but I don't have the same "No way am I riding with them" reaction. For all I know, everyone I ride with is uninsured, so this effect is not really specific to the un-rider scenario.

2) If the group is pulled over by the cops for any reason and licences are checked, they may be more inclined to give the whole group extra grief, as we would be (knowingly or unknowingly) riding with an un-rider. So, indirectly, I could get trouble for the exhaust sound, or the fender eliminator, or have my tyre wear scrutinised closer than normal, for example. This is a fairly small risk, in my opinion, but could be very pricey - but no way to prove the un-rider caused the extra hassle either.

And that's about it - I drew a blank on anything else. I thought I'd open it up to discussion, to see if anyone could offer any other effects on the other riders or if anyone else had opinions about the matter.

[rooster]

If I find out they are a non rider then they can f#@$ off away from me I do not wan to be implicated in problems they cause.

[laidback]

Don't agree with un's at all. If it turns to crap it would cause affected parties all sorts of grief and time to get things sorted out.

However I understand that 3rd party (rego), if bike is registered, covers other riders even if rider is unlicenced as it is the bike that is insured not the rider. The company covering the bike make try to recover costs from the unreg rider or owner. It may get complicated if the insurance company could prove that you knew that the rider was unlicenced.

If I knew that an un was joining a ride I would withdraw and go my own way rather than risk having my life f*@ked up....

[Cath]

Don't agree with un's at all. If it turns to crap it would cause affected parties all sorts of grief and time to get things sorted out.

What "all sorts of grief" are you talking about? (other than the two effects mentioned earlier). I really want to know what theoretical or practical risks a rider is taking on by riding with an un-rider.

However I understand that 3rd party (rego), if bike is registered, covers other riders even if rider is unlicenced as it is the bike that is insured not the rider. The company covering the bike make try to recover costs from the unreg rider or owner.

Compulsory 3rd party will still cover the other rider, but 3rd party property won't if the un-rider isn't licenced. So, you won't be able to claim for bike damage on the insurance, but the medical side is covered as usual if the bike is registered.

[waynemorgan]

My first thought is - there is no way I'd want to be riding anywhere near them. They have no CTP to cover any personal injury they may cause - the effects of any personal injury either on health or ability to earn an income can have a drastic impact on a family.

One question I'd raise tho - why? Why ride unlicensed / unrego'd? What's so hard about it?

[MrWasabi]

i rode my bike to get a blue slip done the other day and was packing shit the whole way there and back. If you are stupid enough to ride a bike with no rego or no license i agree you are a dick head and i would not want to be riding with you. Put the implications aside, i just wouldnt want to be around someone that takes their safety and the safety of others lightly.
I did it because it was the only way i could get it registered, but by law im covered.
Now tho im fully licensed and registered

[Saki]

well personally i dont mind, if they have a reasonable level of skill then its fine with me, so long as they dont ride in a manner which prevokes trouble, and they keep a distant from harming anyone else which is reasonable that they will only fuck themself up, then they are free to go for it.

If ANYONE rider or un-rider rides in a manner which is prevoking trouble then they can stay clear of me!!!

[photomike666]

I really don't like the idea of un riders on a group ride - I don't like the idea of them much at all really.

But let's play devils advocate.

Irrespective of the unrider...

I have rego and am licenced to ride my bike. So I am covered for all personal injuries through my own rego...

I have insurance that not only covers me, but in the event of a not at fault claim, my insurance company will pay and recover the costs from the uninsured party. This is my belief, I have not tested this.

Also, on a group ride there is guarentee that I know the name and age of the other riders, let alone their licence and insurance credentials. I do not believe I could be charged with riding with an unrider, as there is no proof that I know these details.

Personally I believe in fully comprehensive insurance, and pay considerable for the pleasure. What ever an unrider/driver does I am covered, but I do not know how it would affect my rating.

If you have just the cover that comes with Rego or third party property cover/fire and theft (known as TPFT and a minimum requirement in UK), you would still be in a bind as to recovering your property losses. This is the area where unriders are risking other road users, and the reason I have fully comp.

[boozatboo]

The problem is that if the UN is to blame for the accident and they don't have
insurance ... it comes out of your insurance and your premiums go up...
How fair is that ???

Great topic Cath... I totally agree...
If I know beforehand that someone is an UN, I am outta there...

[tim]

I did it because it was the only way i could get it registered, but by law im covered.
Now tho im fully licensed and registered

I believe you're allowed to do it legally (the cops can't book you if you can prove you're going directly to the mechanics), but as far as I know you've got zero insurance for 3rd party property or personal injuries unless you confirm it in writing from your insurance company that you're covered even if you're riding an unregistered vehicle.

I've done it too with cars.

[Smitty]

I have a problem with the unlicenced bit....a possible lack of skills (they may or may not be able to ride/control a bike)
and the unregistered bit .......coz in Vic they are not covered under TAC (neither are any pillions with them)
and
riding a bigger bike than yr licence? ..at least you have a licence (and a bit of training behind it)

and as for the question of property (3rd party or comprehensive) insurance?...forget it, no insurer will pay

so weighing it up?
I would not go on a group ride


interesting topic Cath

[tim]

I think the biggest risk for the "UN" is the dope who's on their l's/p's and rides something they're not licenced for.

They probably don't realise they're an UN, they just think they're risking getting a fine from the cops, not risking those around them.

[laidback]

Even though you have insurance it can be a time consuming exercise to recover costs through your own insurer. Insurance companies will use any excuse to delay or reject claims. They make money by NOT PAYING claims.

I had an experience a few years ago where a woman (uninsured) sideswiped my car while I was parked luckily only damaging my rear bumper. In the end I refused to get my car repaired until my company sorted it out with hers. It took a year but in the end my company wanted to get the claim finalised so agreed to repair my car and they would fight her.

My main concern is if the put someone in a wheelchair for life....how would like that if it was your partner and they had no cover (unreg). Many riders are flat out keeping their ride on the road let alone compensate you or your loved ones for squillions...

[Daisy]

What's the difference between riding with an unrider, and being taken out by an undriver while you're out on your fully licenced and insured group ride? You don't know the status of the person in front, behind or beside you on the road almost 100% of the time.

[tim]

What's the difference between riding with an unrider, and being taken out by an undriver while you're out on your fully licenced and insured group ride? You don't know the status of the person in front, behind or beside you on the road almost 100% of the time.

It's true, but by riding with an UN you're around them 100% of the time, not just passing them once on the road.