alas poor clutch, I will miss you
-
mike-s
- Apprentice Post Whore :-)
- Posts: 6142
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:43 am
- Bike: Suzuki
- State: New South Wales
- Location: Arncliffe, Sydney
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Re: alas poor clutch, I will miss you
Shit, and here i was thinking it was bad enough waiting 4.5 weeks for a full set of head studs (8) to come from japan.
If it hurts, you aren't doing it right.
Re: alas poor clutch, I will miss you
Still not here... was supposed to get a call back about it today and didn't. I can heartily recommend the following
Do not purchase Barnett clutch kits or parts in Australia the people handling the update: production are a bunch of idiots. I think it's simple enough to chase up some parts particularly when you have been made aware that the end customer is kind of unhappy with the 3 month wait time for a standard and common bike. I'm chasing up tomorrow with my bike shop, the distributor and also Barnett in the states. If anyone on here is associated with the distributors then my apologies if I offend but you have most certainly lost one repeat customer due to the way this order has been handled.
Do not purchase Barnett clutch kits or parts in Australia the people handling the update: production are a bunch of idiots. I think it's simple enough to chase up some parts particularly when you have been made aware that the end customer is kind of unhappy with the 3 month wait time for a standard and common bike. I'm chasing up tomorrow with my bike shop, the distributor and also Barnett in the states. If anyone on here is associated with the distributors then my apologies if I offend but you have most certainly lost one repeat customer due to the way this order has been handled.
Last edited by denied on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: alas poor clutch, I will miss you
Right... an update! I chased up my clutch parts with Mack 1 and then with Serco (the distributors). Spoke with one of the guys there and he assured me that he would investigate what was going on etc and call back. Well he did investigate and passed word back to Mack 1 and my missing clutch parts have finally arrived at the shop.
I have to say that after chasing up the distributors things did seem to get rolling a bit quicker since I did mention that I had been waiting patiently til the time that they said the parts would come in. So there is some bit of redemption there
I think the main problem just comes back to Barnett and that they manufacture parts as the orders come in. When I ordered it was a) the Christmas period and b) they were 'changing the stocking numbers' neither of which should be an excuse for a 4 month wait for parts but yeah... I'm happier to point the finger at Barnett rather than Serco.
Only issue now is that I'm going away for the weekend so won't be able to do anything til the following weekend...
But with that I will be back with more pics and the continued howto on replacing an 04 ZX10R clutch.
I have to say that after chasing up the distributors things did seem to get rolling a bit quicker since I did mention that I had been waiting patiently til the time that they said the parts would come in. So there is some bit of redemption there
I think the main problem just comes back to Barnett and that they manufacture parts as the orders come in. When I ordered it was a) the Christmas period and b) they were 'changing the stocking numbers' neither of which should be an excuse for a 4 month wait for parts but yeah... I'm happier to point the finger at Barnett rather than Serco.Only issue now is that I'm going away for the weekend so won't be able to do anything til the following weekend...
But with that I will be back with more pics and the continued howto on replacing an 04 ZX10R clutch.Re: alas poor clutch, I will miss you
Holy thread revival batman! I have finally gotten off my ass and retouched all my re-installation pictures and generally sorted through the flotsam to find only the useful pics. So without further adieu, I will finish off this clutch replacement howto.
To start off with, I took a glory shot of my Akra exhaust. It's been debadged so it's just nice shiny titanium... the debadging occurred mainly as the original stickers were showing a bit of wear and tear and since the rest of the bike has been debadged I figured that it was fitting (only remaining badge is the Kawasaki on the tank). As you can see, a nice layer of dust has built up on it after the eons that I had to wait for the blasted clutch parts to arrive...
click for biggah!
These shots show the orientation of the various drain lines along the bottom edge of the engine and also the location of the oil drain plug. This is looking at the bike from the front right hand side. The big protruding finned section is pointing towards the front of the bike so this should give you some bearings. Now, don't make the mistake I did, which is to try and remove the plastic holders for the cables from the black cage. Instead, undo the nuts that hold the cage in place and take then ENTIRE cage off as one piece. If you so desire you can remove the plastic holders now but you don't actually have to.
click for biggah!
Now you will want to dump any remaining oil from the sump, which I had already done, hence the missing oil drain nut in the first of the last four pics. Once you are oil-free you can undo the sump pan. The only reason that I am dropping the entire sump is that I wanted to be sure that there weren't any errant chunks of metal floating about in there because I knew that something had snapped off. There are 14 bolts that you need to remove to drop the sump as you can see in the picture below:
click for biggah!
Make sure you take note of which nuts go where since you can see, they are DIFFERENT sizes. I have laid them out in roughly the right pattern but you would be better off noting them down yourselves.
You are greeted by this big funky yellow orange thingy once you have the sump out of the way . At first I thought I'd maybe sucked up a duck but it turns out this is just an oil screen, screening the oil before it's fed back into the engine from the sump. This is just held on by a tight fit, so just gently wiggle it off... BUT! don't remove it. Again, since I was paranoid about chunks of metal I cleaned it out which necessitated it's removal. You can also see back up into the engine in the second shot
click for biggah!
Here is the oil screen all cleaned up, I didn't find any chunks within. And that nasty looking hole had me getting my finger stuck in there as I dug around looking for metal... but thankfully since it's an OIL screen it didn't take too much effort to release myself. (i don't recommend poking your fingers into areas that you can't see either unless you know what is in there)
click for biggah!
I took this opportunity to clean out the sump & pan of the engine, as you can see... all nice and shiny now.
click for biggah!
Now, it's important that you clean off any residual gasket left on the mating surfaces. So go around each of these surfaces carefully... it doesn't have to be perfect but get rid of as much as you can. I use a couple of old clothes pegs since they are wooden and soft, you don't want to use anything metal as you DEFINITELY DO NOT want to put any gouges or scratches in these areas. Like I say, clean but doesn't have to be perfect.
click for biggah!
Here's the aftermath of cleaning the sump... oh the pretty swirly bits
click for biggah!
Remember those metal chunks that I kept banging on about... this is all I found. I just swished a magnet about in the oil drain pan and these pieces made themselves visible from the mounds of other gunk in there. More about this later...
click for biggah!
Now I didn't take any pictures of re-assembling the sump etc, short of this picture of the brand new gasket. As I mentioned, for the most part you shouldn't need to remove this section but if for some reason you do, just reverse the steps, easy peasy.
click for biggah!
As mike-s rightly pointed out (as does the workshop manual), you should soak your friction plates in your chosen oil before you install them. So take all your friction plates and bung them into a container that will hold all of them with a bit of room to move
click for biggah!
I've had very good experiences with Silkolene so far, I use Silkolene exclusively now... used it in my CBR929 and now my ZX10. It is also used in my RS250 as well (gear and 2-stroke oils) without issue. This is the oil I chose to replace my old stuff with... bit of a nasty price tag but only the best for the ones you love right?
click for biggah!
Here are the plates stewing, I suggest gas mark 5 for 20 minutes or until golden brown... but in all seriousness, just leave these to soak for a while.
click for biggah!
while you are waiting for the friction plates to soak through you can replace the oil filter. The next couple of pictures give you an idea of where to look for the filter. It's tucked up just behind the header pipes. You WILL need a filter wrench... or in my case it was a filter socket, a giant socket that you attach to your ratchet. The guys at the shop also suggested that if you just needed to remove the filter you could just hammer a big flathead screwdriver through the side of the old one and use the screwdriver to turn the filter... that's a little bit too agricultural for my liking and it doesn't help you install the new one either but each to their own I spose.
click for biggah!
Take the new oil filter, dip your finger in some of the NEW oil. Run your finger around the rubber o-ring on the filter, this ensures a nice seal when you reattach it.
click for biggah!
Screw the oil filter back in place and I recommend using a torque wrench to torque this to a correct setting of 31Nm or 23ft/lb if you are still operating in imperial.
Here is the offending item... the part that caused this whole drama in the first place. You can see the top pusher is missing the end... and as you saw in that photo a bit earlier there really isn't that much left of it. This makes sense when you think about it since you have the gearbox etc sitting right there spinning at all manner of speeds basically acting as a big set of grinding teeth.
click for biggah!
Below is the first spring plate... as I noted back when I disassembled the clutch this was NOT the first plate on my particular bike. I believe it was incorrectly put back together by the previous owner or service mechanic...
click for biggah!
Here is one of the OEM steels, all nice and dimpled, unlike the ones that came with the Barnett kit.
click for biggah!
To start off with, I took a glory shot of my Akra exhaust. It's been debadged so it's just nice shiny titanium... the debadging occurred mainly as the original stickers were showing a bit of wear and tear and since the rest of the bike has been debadged I figured that it was fitting (only remaining badge is the Kawasaki on the tank). As you can see, a nice layer of dust has built up on it after the eons that I had to wait for the blasted clutch parts to arrive...
click for biggah!
These shots show the orientation of the various drain lines along the bottom edge of the engine and also the location of the oil drain plug. This is looking at the bike from the front right hand side. The big protruding finned section is pointing towards the front of the bike so this should give you some bearings. Now, don't make the mistake I did, which is to try and remove the plastic holders for the cables from the black cage. Instead, undo the nuts that hold the cage in place and take then ENTIRE cage off as one piece. If you so desire you can remove the plastic holders now but you don't actually have to.
click for biggah!
Now you will want to dump any remaining oil from the sump, which I had already done, hence the missing oil drain nut in the first of the last four pics. Once you are oil-free you can undo the sump pan. The only reason that I am dropping the entire sump is that I wanted to be sure that there weren't any errant chunks of metal floating about in there because I knew that something had snapped off. There are 14 bolts that you need to remove to drop the sump as you can see in the picture below:
click for biggah!
Make sure you take note of which nuts go where since you can see, they are DIFFERENT sizes. I have laid them out in roughly the right pattern but you would be better off noting them down yourselves.
You are greeted by this big funky yellow orange thingy once you have the sump out of the way . At first I thought I'd maybe sucked up a duck but it turns out this is just an oil screen, screening the oil before it's fed back into the engine from the sump. This is just held on by a tight fit, so just gently wiggle it off... BUT! don't remove it. Again, since I was paranoid about chunks of metal I cleaned it out which necessitated it's removal. You can also see back up into the engine in the second shot
click for biggah!
Here is the oil screen all cleaned up, I didn't find any chunks within. And that nasty looking hole had me getting my finger stuck in there as I dug around looking for metal... but thankfully since it's an OIL screen it didn't take too much effort to release myself. (i don't recommend poking your fingers into areas that you can't see either unless you know what is in there)
click for biggah!
I took this opportunity to clean out the sump & pan of the engine, as you can see... all nice and shiny now.
click for biggah!
Now, it's important that you clean off any residual gasket left on the mating surfaces. So go around each of these surfaces carefully... it doesn't have to be perfect but get rid of as much as you can. I use a couple of old clothes pegs since they are wooden and soft, you don't want to use anything metal as you DEFINITELY DO NOT want to put any gouges or scratches in these areas. Like I say, clean but doesn't have to be perfect.
click for biggah!
Here's the aftermath of cleaning the sump... oh the pretty swirly bits
click for biggah!
Remember those metal chunks that I kept banging on about... this is all I found. I just swished a magnet about in the oil drain pan and these pieces made themselves visible from the mounds of other gunk in there. More about this later...
click for biggah!
Now I didn't take any pictures of re-assembling the sump etc, short of this picture of the brand new gasket. As I mentioned, for the most part you shouldn't need to remove this section but if for some reason you do, just reverse the steps, easy peasy.
click for biggah!
As mike-s rightly pointed out (as does the workshop manual), you should soak your friction plates in your chosen oil before you install them. So take all your friction plates and bung them into a container that will hold all of them with a bit of room to move
click for biggah!
I've had very good experiences with Silkolene so far, I use Silkolene exclusively now... used it in my CBR929 and now my ZX10. It is also used in my RS250 as well (gear and 2-stroke oils) without issue. This is the oil I chose to replace my old stuff with... bit of a nasty price tag but only the best for the ones you love right?
click for biggah!
Here are the plates stewing, I suggest gas mark 5 for 20 minutes or until golden brown... but in all seriousness, just leave these to soak for a while.
click for biggah!
while you are waiting for the friction plates to soak through you can replace the oil filter. The next couple of pictures give you an idea of where to look for the filter. It's tucked up just behind the header pipes. You WILL need a filter wrench... or in my case it was a filter socket, a giant socket that you attach to your ratchet. The guys at the shop also suggested that if you just needed to remove the filter you could just hammer a big flathead screwdriver through the side of the old one and use the screwdriver to turn the filter... that's a little bit too agricultural for my liking and it doesn't help you install the new one either but each to their own I spose.
click for biggah!
Take the new oil filter, dip your finger in some of the NEW oil. Run your finger around the rubber o-ring on the filter, this ensures a nice seal when you reattach it.
click for biggah!
Screw the oil filter back in place and I recommend using a torque wrench to torque this to a correct setting of 31Nm or 23ft/lb if you are still operating in imperial.
Here is the offending item... the part that caused this whole drama in the first place. You can see the top pusher is missing the end... and as you saw in that photo a bit earlier there really isn't that much left of it. This makes sense when you think about it since you have the gearbox etc sitting right there spinning at all manner of speeds basically acting as a big set of grinding teeth.
click for biggah!
Below is the first spring plate... as I noted back when I disassembled the clutch this was NOT the first plate on my particular bike. I believe it was incorrectly put back together by the previous owner or service mechanic...
click for biggah!
Here is one of the OEM steels, all nice and dimpled, unlike the ones that came with the Barnett kit.
click for biggah!
Re: alas poor clutch, I will miss you
Following the instructions in the workshop manual is a tad hard as they aren't very clear but just to clarify, this is the order I used:
First on, friction plate then the special spring plate then another friction plate, followed by a steel and then friction... alternating steel/friction until you run out of plates. Make sure that you line up each of the tabs in the clutch basket, this is shown better in the top down shot further along. The final plate should be a friction plate as shown below:
click for biggah!
One of the amusing things with Silkolene oil is its red tinge... thus after spilling a bunch of it on my custom drip tray (aka chunk'o'cardboard) it ends up looking like a b-grade horror movie set
click for biggah!
Quick shot of the clutch from above (as mentioned before), you can see the friction plate/steel alternation in the clutch basket here and also how the tabs of each of the plates line up...
click for biggah!
Prepare your springs and the clutch basket cover plate in which the springs mount:
click for biggah!
I noted in my disassembly post about how the springs, washers and nuts are set out. I recommend using some loctite on each of the screws as the last thing you want is one of these going astray in your engine
click for biggah!
Here is the rather hilarious bit that I used to tighten up each of the spring/washer/nut combos, three different drives... and it stuck on the end of my torque wrench
click for biggah!
And finally all put together...
click for biggah!
IMPORTANT NOTE! The final cover plate has a particular alignment... you will feel it drop in a little bit when you have the alignment correct. There is a good section in the workshop manual regarding this on page 6-13, which also lists the torque settings for each of the spring nut combos (10Nm)
Here is a picture of when the outer plate is NOT aligned correctly... see how it sticks out a bit:
click for biggah!
This is how it should look... nice and flush:
click for biggah!
I had almost bolted everything back together when I re-read through the manual and picked up this particular point so please! make sure you line them up!
We are on the home straight now, grab your new gasket and your OCD-style labelled ziploc bag of "clutch cover" nuts as shown below:
click for biggah!
There are two locator pins on the engine casing that you can use to line up the gasket
click for biggah!
Take the actuator shaft and insert it back into the clutch cover making sure to get the spring on the CORRECT side... as shown in the picture
click for biggah!
The inside of the clutch cover should look like this... the actuator shaft should be open to allow the end of the pusher to slot in. You can easily tell if it has picked up by trying to pull the top of the actuator shaft with your hand... you should be able to feel the tension of the clutch (a whole lot of tension mind you)
click for biggah!
Quick shot of the oil levels... awww empty! This is obviously BEFORE i refilled the sump. The amount of oil required is stamped on the side of the engine btw.
click for biggah!
And now for the final part... sorting out the cable. Go up to the handlebars, yes, I know, it's been AGES since you have seen these bits of your bike as you've been knee deep in the engine so it should come as a welcome break. Wind out the adjustment as far as you can to give yourself plenty of slack at the other end of the cable. You can see in this picture how slack it is by the gap between the clutch level and the stop
click for biggah!
Do the same at the other end of the cable, loosen off both nuts to give yourself maximum play.
click for biggah!
As you can see in this picture, you are trying to get the T looking bit back into the top of the actuator shaft... this will require some grunt work since the clutch is now under tension, but it doesn't require THAT much.
click for biggah!
And voila!
click for biggah!
That ends the picture show. Some important things to note after you have put all this stuff back together. You will want to adjust the clutch cable so that when the clutch lever is not engaged there should be NO tension on the clutch... but you want only a tiny bit of travel before you start feeling tension on the clutch. If you have it under tension when the clutch lever is not engaged you are going to wear out your clutch quicker since it's partially engaged... make sense?
Make sure to tighten up both nuts on the engine end of the clutch cable so that there is no movement in the cable sheath.
One final point, if like me, you had your bike up on stands for this procedure there is one super important thing to do when you are testing the clutch. You will start the bike up in nuetral... when you pull the clutch in and click the bike into first MAKE SURE THAT THE SIDE STAND IS NOT DOWN. If the side stand is down the engine automatically cuts out... when you are hellishly worried you have done something wrong, like I was, and you can't for the life of you get the bike to engage first without cutting out... check that side stand before you throw a hissy fit, storm into the house and drink beer while muttering swear words.
Hope this has been helpful for some one out there
First on, friction plate then the special spring plate then another friction plate, followed by a steel and then friction... alternating steel/friction until you run out of plates. Make sure that you line up each of the tabs in the clutch basket, this is shown better in the top down shot further along. The final plate should be a friction plate as shown below:
click for biggah!
One of the amusing things with Silkolene oil is its red tinge... thus after spilling a bunch of it on my custom drip tray (aka chunk'o'cardboard) it ends up looking like a b-grade horror movie set
click for biggah!
Quick shot of the clutch from above (as mentioned before), you can see the friction plate/steel alternation in the clutch basket here and also how the tabs of each of the plates line up...
click for biggah!
Prepare your springs and the clutch basket cover plate in which the springs mount:
click for biggah!
I noted in my disassembly post about how the springs, washers and nuts are set out. I recommend using some loctite on each of the screws as the last thing you want is one of these going astray in your engine
click for biggah!
Here is the rather hilarious bit that I used to tighten up each of the spring/washer/nut combos, three different drives... and it stuck on the end of my torque wrench
click for biggah!
And finally all put together...
click for biggah!
IMPORTANT NOTE! The final cover plate has a particular alignment... you will feel it drop in a little bit when you have the alignment correct. There is a good section in the workshop manual regarding this on page 6-13, which also lists the torque settings for each of the spring nut combos (10Nm)
Here is a picture of when the outer plate is NOT aligned correctly... see how it sticks out a bit:
click for biggah!
This is how it should look... nice and flush:
click for biggah!
I had almost bolted everything back together when I re-read through the manual and picked up this particular point so please! make sure you line them up!
We are on the home straight now, grab your new gasket and your OCD-style labelled ziploc bag of "clutch cover" nuts as shown below:
click for biggah!
There are two locator pins on the engine casing that you can use to line up the gasket
click for biggah!
Take the actuator shaft and insert it back into the clutch cover making sure to get the spring on the CORRECT side... as shown in the picture
click for biggah!
The inside of the clutch cover should look like this... the actuator shaft should be open to allow the end of the pusher to slot in. You can easily tell if it has picked up by trying to pull the top of the actuator shaft with your hand... you should be able to feel the tension of the clutch (a whole lot of tension mind you)
click for biggah!
Quick shot of the oil levels... awww empty! This is obviously BEFORE i refilled the sump. The amount of oil required is stamped on the side of the engine btw.
click for biggah!
And now for the final part... sorting out the cable. Go up to the handlebars, yes, I know, it's been AGES since you have seen these bits of your bike as you've been knee deep in the engine so it should come as a welcome break. Wind out the adjustment as far as you can to give yourself plenty of slack at the other end of the cable. You can see in this picture how slack it is by the gap between the clutch level and the stop
click for biggah!
Do the same at the other end of the cable, loosen off both nuts to give yourself maximum play.
click for biggah!
As you can see in this picture, you are trying to get the T looking bit back into the top of the actuator shaft... this will require some grunt work since the clutch is now under tension, but it doesn't require THAT much.
click for biggah!
And voila!
click for biggah!
That ends the picture show. Some important things to note after you have put all this stuff back together. You will want to adjust the clutch cable so that when the clutch lever is not engaged there should be NO tension on the clutch... but you want only a tiny bit of travel before you start feeling tension on the clutch. If you have it under tension when the clutch lever is not engaged you are going to wear out your clutch quicker since it's partially engaged... make sense?
Make sure to tighten up both nuts on the engine end of the clutch cable so that there is no movement in the cable sheath.
One final point, if like me, you had your bike up on stands for this procedure there is one super important thing to do when you are testing the clutch. You will start the bike up in nuetral... when you pull the clutch in and click the bike into first MAKE SURE THAT THE SIDE STAND IS NOT DOWN. If the side stand is down the engine automatically cuts out... when you are hellishly worried you have done something wrong, like I was, and you can't for the life of you get the bike to engage first without cutting out... check that side stand before you throw a hissy fit, storm into the house and drink beer while muttering swear words.
Hope this has been helpful for some one out there