front trail braking to apex

[racyzx6rr]

just curious how many riders front trail brake to the apex ?
the pic shows just how far u can trail in with the front brake on all be it with 1 finger

[Smitty]

trailbraking to the apex??
looks more like he is about to have a lowside off.....

and trailbraking itself?
generally not recommended by those who are very fast on the track
better to get the braking over and done with while the bike
is upright...

cheers

[icebreaker]

That is him Ian....


If I do in abit hot I feel quite comfortable braking gently into the corner..

I don't feel very comfortable being in that situation, but I figure best to do it, then go in real hot one day and just get it all wrong..

Practice makes perfect.. And that included practicing the bad stuff.. So Dave's pretty good at the bad stuff.. He's had enough practice..

[Wannabe]

trailbraking to the apex??
looks more like he is about to have a lowside off.....
and trailbraking itself?
generally not recommended by those who are very fast on the track
better to get the braking over and done with while the bike
is upright... cheers

An interesting comment there Smitty. I wonder who 'those who are very fast on the track' are?
If you mean road riders doing track days, then yes it is definitely riskier to brake into the apex as it really loads up the front end & can end in tears. Unless you're after the ultimate lap-time it's probably not worth dumping your P&J.
But in racing (I believe they're all fast on the track - just some are faster than others) I think you'll find that they all brake right up to the apex.

[Nanna10r]

Holy Crap Racy, great skills & nice shot of them but .....
I'd put that one in the "Dont try this at home kids" category as it is certainly an Advanced Riding technique much more suitable for track riding where conditions are predictable & safer.
I have done it at times as a last ditch effort to "save my bum" but it normally means i havent prepared early enough for a corner.
It will Be interested to see if Toprider actually teach it at the braking & cornering school in Jan.
Cheers Brett

[Smitty]

An interesting comment there Smitty. I wonder who 'those who are very fast on the track' are?
If you mean road riders doing track days, then yes it is definitely riskier to brake into the apex as it really loads up the front end & can end in tears. Unless you're after the ultimate lap-time it's probably not worth dumping your P&J.
But in racing (I believe they're all fast on the track - just some are faster than others) I think you'll find that they all brake right up to the apex.

mate
I was quoting (from memory) some comments from guys
like Barry Sheene and Greg Hansford...
what they said was simple...
get all your braking done before you tip in and aim at the apex...

and I can see why
you can carry higher speeds coming outta the corner
as your bike is more balanced
and of course, you are less likely to tip the bike on its side
if you don't trail brake

interesting topic......

cheers

[aardvark]

Some of the GP footage of Rossi shows him using the front brake up to the apex. I prefer to have all my braking done before the corner. I fgure if you have to brake whilst you are in the corner, then your observations let you down and you're misjudged the corner speed...

But then, I'm not trying to get every last km/h out of the corner.

[Wannabe]

I can see what you're saying Smitty and I'd agree with you if we're referring to for novice racers or for road-bike riders on the track.
But one thing I know for certain is that racers brake right up to the apex.
Admittedly you have to be experienced and smooth, as well as having the correct bike set-up, to take full advantage of this (for the reasons you mentioned) but if we're ultimately talking about the fastest way around a track, this is one of the components required.
I don't doubt the credentials of the two gentlemen you mentioned Smitty but tyres & bikes have changed a lot since Barry (RIP) was racing.
Try watching a modern motorcycle race and see if there is anyone who isn't braking up to the apex.
I'd go as far as saying that if you're racing competitively and you're not braking up to the apex, then you'd be lucky to qualify.
Just my $0.02c.

[kempy]

Most I ever do is 1/3 in. Then its all throttle.

[MadKaw]

Right about there, my engine case is throwing out more sparks than a flare...
then I ride around the next few corners wondering, did I wear it through and is there oil coming out... It gets the better of me and I have to stop and look... no, theres another mm or so of magnesium still there...

Those 6's sure have lots of ground clearance... and yes I brake as late as possible into the corner... The hard braking first and lighter braking until your ready to get on the gas again... You should always be on the brakes or on the gas I say... or in the grass as sometime occurs...

[Wannabe]

<snip> You should always be on the brakes or on the gas I say... or in the grass as sometime occurs...

Funny you should say that MadKaw. A while back, some punter from a pommy magazine asked Valentino Rossi for a tip on how to go faster. Vale said that it was very simple - you just brake as late as possible & get on the gas as soon as possible

I can safey say that I am in no fear of wearing out engine casings nor braking to anywhere near the apex. Why? Because this way there is less chance that I, with my relatively limited skills & machinery, would throw it down the road. Sure it means I'm slower than I could be but I still get my kicks and increase the chance that I'll be able to ride home afterwards (hopefully )

[hammer]

I think the best way(if you have lots of money to perfect it )
100% braking in a straight line tapering off as you lean til 0% at apex. Not that i use this method but if you have the win or bin riding style it`s great!

Stu

[spekt-r]

I usualy only trail my front brake deep into a corner if I have messed up and im trying to wash off excess speed.
Though often I will trail my back brake lightly right to the apex this gives me better feel and more confidence than trailing the front, but thats just me, we all do tings a little differently.
BTW cool pic mate, youve really got her on her ear.

[gizmo]

A bike generally doesn't want to turn in under brakes, Brendan Clarke pointed this out at the Tribe QR track day earlier this year when refering to turn 3 @ QR, where you are going reasonably fast, approx 240kph indicated on a 636 & not getting the correct line into turn 3.

He said you are better off braking early & setting yourself up for the better line into/thru the corner than braking late & not being able to tip the bike in under brakes. Obviously the better you get the less this may apply. Depends on how much braking you are doing I guess.?

[Barrabob]

Brakeing into turn 3 at qr at 240 kph is like negotiating a cattle grid at 240 kph no wonder he said to do it earier

I wish i could get my 636 down like that or even better someone elses,time and practice i supose.