I wanna 10!

[Nucci]

Comming from South Australia originally, that comment could apply to me.......except I'm not a quickish rider (but I'm a bloody fast runner )
Regards Simon

We have one stretch near where I grew up in Canberra called 'Magpie Gully'.. imaginative eh?

It was about half a kay of floodplain cum storwater drainage that was lined all the way by old, 10 metre or so high gums, with about id say a quarter of them at one stage or another, housed nesting magpies.

I kid you not, during spring when we wanted to go kick a ball around we would play rock-paper-scissors (but usually the weediest or youngest would be sacrificed) to see which unfortunate soul would have to go for a recce from the safety of the footpath across to the oval to see 'if the coast was clear' which it never was muahahaha. Once you got to the oval you were usually safe - why we always insisted on someone going first was down to sadism rather than smart planning.

We were better off either going the long way around to the oval or just all screaming over at once and letting the slower ones in the pack fall victim instead.

Hmmm I copped some beauties over the years, bleeding cuts/scratches and even a biggish lump from a kamikaze/learner/optically challenged bird who smacked into my head at speed.

[I-K]

But IK you've been riding with me and know what my speed is like,

Yup. However, you were a car hoon for a while beforehand... plus, the thing is, you *did* put in time on a little bike and developed your "right hand to brake, right wrist to go" and other, subtler riding reflexes on that.

I know quite a few quick(ish) riders out there with not much experience who havent had any dirt experience and their most adrenaline inducing pastime was running through magpie infested parklands on the way to school during swooping season.

Again, though, did they jump on a big bike immediately, or after a few months on something slow? The question isn't whether just about anyone can *become* competent on a large-capacity sportsbike, but whether they can *be* competent *if* they jump straight onto one.

I'm not saying im a fast rider - but I feel I am quicker than the average rider (that ive been riding with anyway). I think most of it comes down to riding a lot in all conditions and not pushing myself to the point of feeling uneasy.

In your particular case, I freely credit you with a well-above-average dose of talent (far in excess of my own) and well-below-average dose of rocks in your head (about on par with my own). If you were more of a faken idiot, chances are you'd be *a*lot* faster...

[Strika]

YOU just don't seem to get the individuality involved in riding. I believe that there is a rider for every bike and a bike for every rider. The bird is what is right for Steve, simple.

I originally said to get whatever the hell you want. But the more comments I read from you, the more I am starting to think that that might be a bad idea. If you believe that there is a rider for every bike and so on, then you really don't know what riding a bike is I am sorry. A good rider can get on pretty much any old piece of crap and ride it ...fast! If you have to swap bikes to make you a better rider, then your dilusional. It just doesn't work that way. It's skill which makes you a good rider, not the bike, or the bikes weight.

[ross79]

What Kristy is saying is riding a bike is an individual experience. What feels comfortable for one rider doesn't have to suit another. I know a lot will disagree with this but you're entitled to your oppinion and I'm sticking with mine
My mate didn't feel to confident on a 250 as it drops into corners to quick and doesn't fill him with confidence while cornering. I felt exactly the same when I tried a few 250s. I told him he might feel better on a heavier bike as they tend to feel more planted in a corner and you have to force them a bit more to get them to lean. While a 250 feels like it's leaning too much too quickly.
He ended up buying a blackbird and his riding instantly improved.

[Nucci]

Again, though, did they jump on a big bike immediately, or after a few months on something slow? The question isn't whether just about anyone can *become* competent on a large-capacity sportsbike, but whether they can *be* competent *if* they jump straight onto one.

The guys I alluded to who I rode with who were quite capable from the get go had little experience on a bike when I was riding with them. But you know what, now you mention it my mate in Canberra has been involved in martial arts (but more importantly) lots of gaming for a long time so maybe he has above average hand-eye coordination. Plus he is just one of those naturally coordinated people.

Another fella I met on a ride one day in the cotter, swapped numbers and rode with him a couple of times after that - I didnt know him from a bunch of bananas and he could easily have been talking out of his arse. He was in his mid thirties and claimed he first hopped on a bike just a few years prior and that was that. But he was a bit too crazy for me. But yeah, he mightve indulged in train surfing for all I know up until that point and needed mucho adrenaline to get through the day.

And a couple of guys down here are quite good too with just a couple years experience, I guess the smart thing is they spend a lot of time at the track from the outset and found their limits there. Not that track riding equates speed as some of the other people ive ridden with are living proof of.

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack - back on topic, uhm....... whats this thread about??

[BikerBoy]

buy one! but wait for the 08 without those shitty looking underseat exhausts (hopefully 08 anyway)

[Kristy]

For example, if it was the Blackbird's weight that put your mate in the zone, should other n00bs in his position consider GoldWings, since those things have 200kg more weight than a BlackBird. More weight must be more of a good thing, right?

LISTEN! Different bikes for different people!! It's not that difficult a concept.

[Stretchy]

I have always felt comfortable on two wheels and have ridden BMX, MTB and dirtbikes in small amounts in years gone by but never took them on seriously like sportsbikes because of my size, 6'6". I did start on sportsbikes late at 28 which may also have something to do with it.

What about the rest of what I bring up? Sport and active pastimes? Hell, have you put in any time in the Defence Forces? Apart from dabbling in pushbikes and dirtbikes, you haven't spent the rest of your life prior to getting into bikes being a couch potato, right?

Where people start is up to them and for some small bikes is the answer but not all need to start there is all i am trying to say. Just seems like everyone beleives that starting on a small bike is the way to go but i dont beleive its 100% true.

Again, your own individual experience of being able to jump onto a fast bike and make it work right off the bat would be in an overwhelming, almost vanishingly-small minority. It's just not the case that a significant proportion of people who get into bikes bring that level of innate talent with them.

If you got 1,000 people together who all wanted to take up guitar, how many of them would end up able to play like Tom Morello within a short period of time? Same thing with bikes, or anything else...

I played Aussie Rules as a junior in Ruck/Full Forward so did have some experience in competitive activities.

I understand what you are saying as far as the vast majority dont have the skill/confidence to jump straight onto a big bike. I have seen in my experiences that starting on a small bike or having 20+ years experience doesnt always make you a better rider thats all.

[I-K]

What Kristy is saying is riding a bike is an individual experience.

It is, in the same way that fucking is. Certain fundamental principles apply to everyone, and fine-tuning to get the experience working to your total satisfaction is only feasible once those fundamentals are in place. If someone's got an issue with premature ejaculation, is the solution to their problem to start banging uglier women?

What feels comfortable for one rider doesn't have to suit another.

Once the fundamental skillset is in place, yes. As Strika very aptly pointed out, if someone's having to swap and change bikes because they can't make a particular type of bike do something as basic as turn into a corner to something approaching their satisfaction, they're the problem, not the bike.

I know a lot will disagree with this

Yes, they will. They will disagree with it because it's fundamentally incorrect.

but you're entitled to your oppinion and I'm sticking with mine

Perfectly reasonable; if one opinion comes from a good couple of decades of riding and racing, and another opinion comes from reading bikemags and sitting out a portion of one's P's, there's no reason why they both can't be equally valid.

My mate didn't feel to confident on a 250 as it drops into corners to quick and doesn't fill him with confidence while cornering. I felt exactly the same when I tried a few 250s.

Reminds me of the time I felt sorry for a mate who was marooned on his BabyBlade by a lack of upgrade funds and let him ride my R1 for a bit; I narrowly avoided countersteering straight into the first roundabout we came to.

That was a while ago. Since then, my steering has improved and I tend not to make those sorts of mistakes when I jump onto bikes with handling characteristics significantly different to what I usually ride... ergo, the issue weren't the roundabout-seeking properties of the BabyBlade's front wheel, but the fact that there were big holes in my riding skillset.

Can you see what I'm trying to illustrate here?

I told him he might feel better on a heavier bike...

A more useful piece of advice would've been to tell him to work on his steering, and to practice stabilising the bike with the throttle after he tips into a turn.

...as they tend to feel more planted in a corner and you have to force them a bit more to get them to lean.

Thus illustrating what happens when you get someone who gets their knowledge from bikemags dispensing advice. Nothing screamingly inaccurate in the above statement, but as advice to someone who's having issues with their riding, it's unequivocally, 100% wrong, and bordering on negligence.

While a 250 feels like it's leaning too much too quickly.

If you lack the finesse to steer one, sure, that's a huge problem with them.

He ended up buying a blackbird and his riding instantly improved.

In other words, he can now keep up on group rides because the bike he's on is masking shortcomings in his technique.

I'm going to have to start pitching tent in the camp Strika just established. I was prepared to give you both the benefit of the doubt, but it's shaping up like your inability to appreciate your own cluelessness is compromising the skill development of people who are themselves too inexperienced to recognise how bad your advice is, and that's ueber-uncool.

[I-K]

I played Aussie Rules as a junior in Ruck/Full Forward so did have some experience in competitive activities.

Junior Aussie Rules, eh? And you jumped onto bikes at 28? And now you're racing...?

It's starting to seem that you're just one of these annoying "natural"-type muthafuckas, like Troy Bayliss or Biaggi, who won world champioships without being born with a minimoto shoved up their arsecrack... which means my uncoordinated, unathletic flabby arse should probably give you one of these... I hate your kind.

[I-K]

Another fella I met on a ride one day in the cotter, swapped numbers and rode with him a couple of times after that - I didnt know him from a bunch of bananas and he could easily have been talking out of his arse. He was in his mid thirties and claimed he first hopped on a bike just a few years prior and that was that...

...And a couple of guys down here are quite good too with just a couple years experience...

Note emphasis... this is what I'm getting at. By the time someone's been riding for a couple of years, there'll be very little trace left of what sort of rider they were in their first few thousand kms.

To flip your previous post back onto you to illustrate what I mean, you've ridden with me plenty, and you've seen I'm in the a-shade-above-average category in terms of keeping up a pace and knowing what I'm doing on a bike... I came into bikes with only my driving ability as evidence that I'm not getting in completely and utterly over my head. My coordination and balance are shocking (I didn't learn to ride a bicycle until I was eleven), my reflexes are glacial, I grew up reading books and building shit out of Lego instead of climbing trees and pegging rocks through windows, I've never played any sport and I'm about as competitive as a tender process for shoe manufacture in the Soviet Union... physiologically and psychologically, I know few people who tick so few boxes on the "This guy's going to ride sportsbikes fast" checklist, yet here I am. Weird. Spins me out to this day...

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack - back on topic, uhm....... whats this thread about??

Precisely what we've been talking about; learning curves...

[ross79]

Wow I-K you're so good, what's latest book called?? You must know everything there is to know about riding! I guess every forum has to have a know it all

[ozten]

Why is it people seem to think that if you own a ten you have to ride it like your valentino. You dont have to ride it flat out whereever you go, Kristy obviously wants one cause she thinks it is one sexy bike, if she is smart enough not to try and pretend to be the fastest rider in the world i say good on ya, i fully support it and with the outstanding brakes and linear power delivery i dont think it will be dangerous at all.

[I-K]

Wow I-K you're so good, what's latest book called?? You must know everything there is to know about riding!

Not everything... just a hell of a lot more than you. If that wasn't the case, you'd be picking apart what I said in my previous reply to you and showing me what you think I got wrong, instead of showing how easily you take offence.

I guess every forum has to have a know it all

Yup, and on here, based on your performance so far, you come a lot closer to having the job than I do.

[I-K]

Why is it people seem to think that if you own a ten you have to ride it like your valentino. You dont have to ride it flat out whereever you go, Kristy obviously wants one cause she thinks it is one sexy bike, if she is smart enough not to try and pretend to be the fastest rider in the world i say good on ya, i fully support it and with the outstanding brakes and linear power delivery i dont think it will be dangerous at all.

Note that the shitfight only started when she started explaining why, in her mind, the decision to upgrade to a 10R makes perfect sense. Sprinkle some chips onto some n00b shoulders, stir, simmer, and here we are...

...nothing intrinsically wrong with a n00b jumping onto a big bike before they're ready. Hell, I did it... and the whole experience of being so far out of my depth had me so on edge initially that I could only fart in ultrasonic for about three months while going "Hyuk-hyuk, this is cool". Where people who've been around for a while start massaging their temples is when said n00b sets out to illustrate how logical their decision is, and, in the process, drag out a long chain of clueless n00bs perpetuating other n00bs' cluelessness, and having an attitude about it.