I wanna 10!

[Neka79]

just buy the 10.

there are 2 types of riders, those who have crashed, and those who WILL crash...

who defines a good rider?? u?? ur mate ash is a good rider?? by who's standard??

as for Java's comments abt gravel on the road- id be pretty sure most tracks dont have gravel on the corners... REAL road riding experience is different to track training..sure track training is a great idea, but it aint the be-all and end-all...

why dont u concerntrate on getting the most learning out of the bike u have, and when u get a unrestricted license get what u please...




just cos one of ur pupils tells another pupil that he should take advanced maths...does that mean he should??

[Rusty]

IK may be a grumpy sounding bloke, but he usually makes sense if you have a bit of a think about what he says.

Put it this way: I don't regret learning how to ride on an old farm bike, then getting an old road bike, then going through a few others to my current ZZR600 and ZX9R (a keeper). Every bike I've had has taught me something different. I would not have dreamed of getting straight on the 9, and still wouldn't. I'd still get an older bike and learn how to ride first.

If you think you have to wring the neck of a 600 to get any action, you don't know what you're on about. Sure, they go quicker the harder you push 'em, but they're far more capable than a 250 even if you limit 'em to 9000rpm (3/4 of the ZZR's redline, and it's a comparative slug). If someone says they've "outgrown" what a modern 600 sports bike can do on the street, then they're riding like an idiot, just bragging or plain ignorant. If you want a 10 'cos you just want a 10, get a 10. Just don't expect to be able to ride it like a 10, or have most people think it's a clever thing to do. And if it catches you out, don't complain or be surprised.

[I-K]

Dude, looks to me like the only thing you are qualified to give adivce on is how fantasitc you are!

...and it looks to me that you're reading things into what I previously said. Why do you appear to be presuming that I've modelled those ten criteria on myself?

FWIW...

1. Ridden over 100,000km... Yes. I'm up around 160,000.
2. Owned more than 10 motorcycles for an extended period of time... Only just. ZXR250, FZR600, ZX-9R-B4, YZF-R1M, ZX-6R-J2, GPz500S, YZ426F, VT250F Spada, GSX-R600X, ZX-9R-C1, ZX-9R-C2.
3. Ridden on a minimum of two types of touring tyres, sports tyres and track tyres or slicks... No. I've never ridden on touring tyres.
4. Carried out maintenance... No. None of my bikes have seen the inside of a workshop this century, but I've not done anything more complicated than check the valve clearances, change a clutch, or a chain and sprockets.
5. Carried out crash repairs... Yes. Both my C-model ZX9's have been resurrected wrecks.
6. Carried out moodifications... No. I've fitted exhausts and race shocks. That's kindergarten shit.
7. Ridden faraway twisty roads... Barely. I've been to Phillip Island seven times and to Queensland once. Big deal.
8. Commuted... Yes. I haven't used the car to get around since 2003.
9. Ridden dirt... Barely. The last time I took the dirtbike out was in April, 2004, and anyone who came riding with me would gets lots of rest breaks waiting for me to catch up.
10.Ridden 1,000km days... Barely. I've done it thrice.

So, my score on that scale, taking the "barelies" as half a mark, is 6/10, two short of my own threshold for dispensing advice which bike someone should or shouldn't buy... which is why, throughout this thread, I've been telling you to go for your life and get the 10R you want because that's what you want to do.

Who thinks they're good now?

[Gosling1]

.......If fewer than 8 of the above statements apply to you, you do not have the experience to offer meaningful opinion on bikes.

</judgemental bastard>

thats a bit harsh mate !! But you did qualify it with the <judgemental bastard> disclaimer ......

Riding every day is what makes you a good rider. Every day that you get home without an accident makes you a better rider. Only in very small increments, but thats how it works. Every time you ride in the rain, you learn another thing about how your bike handles wet roads. This makes you a better wet-weather rider.

Every time you fang on a downhill stretch, your braking points and throttle control will improve. Only in small bits, but thats what happens. Sometimes the incremental advances take years, for some people it happens much quicker. Some people can ride all their life, and still be happy going slow. (well, slower than others). Its all relative.....

That list of 10 things is a hell of a list, I don't agree that you need at least 8 to offer a meaningful opinion, a meaningful opinion can be offered by someone who has just ridden a bike with a disc brake after riding nothing but drum brakes......"fuck these brakes are good".....its only an opinion, but it is meaningful !!

Falling off a bike gives you experience. Usually, its a bad experience. If you can walk away, well, thats a good experience. But the point is, you have learnt from your mistake (hopefully), so in the end, you won't make the same mistake again - Thus, you become a better rider than you were, before you fell off......its all incremental.....even after 35 years riding, I still learn things every day (generally *bad* things that shouldn't be taught to learners well, when you ride a 180hp ZX12R, what else would you expect ?? )

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I-K is telling us all that because he has done all those things on the list, he is capable of telling us all how to suck eggs. It is his way of saying......these are the types of things that will help give you the experience you need, to become a crusty old biker thats seen and done it all !! Thats all. He may have done all of these things, but so have plenty of others, so he's not Robinson Crusoe. Its just that sometimes the message comes across a bit , well, judgemental sometimes.........just check the disclaimer first

Happy trails

[RichB]

"It's a matter of style and doing what is right for YOU."

"I know people who have ridden for 20 years and are still only average riders, and they have never fallen off! Which also makes me wonder why I-K seems to think that falling off makes you a good rider"

You just answered that too if you reread your own line, they are still average riders because they never pushed it or learnt anything. Guess what, to find the limit of something you have to exceed it. You are not riding your 250 hard enough if you don't get that. And if you can't ride a 250 decently, why on earth are you even considering a 10. Style? Puttering around on a large bike is not styling, its what pretenders do.

It seems more logical to me that Ross has a devious plan to take your bike off you when you throw it down the road if he's agreeing with all this.

[I-K]

I'm not convinced that a lot of years riding experience necessarily equal a skilled rider.

I remember thinking something fairly similar when I was on my L's, too. It was a coping strategy against accepting just how far out of my depth I really was.

I'm a teacher,

Then you would've probably had some experience with people who haven't let their ignorance of a subject stop them expounding at length about it.

Which also makes me wonder why I-K seems to think that falling off makes you a good rider

Where did I even allude to or hint at falling off being a factor in whether or not someone's a good rider? Are you making assumptions again?

On the same note there are riders out their, like our mate Ash, who got his bike licence on the same day as me and is an excellent rider.

Please define what makes him an "excellent" rider?

The thing is everyone rides differently, some like long fast straights , some like to give it heaps in the twisties , some people are happy ringing the necks of their 600's to get some action . It's a matter of style and doing what is right for YOU.

...or so you heard, you forget to add.

[I-K]

...if you can't ride a 250 decently, why on earth are you even considering a 10. Style? Puttering around on a large bike is not styling, its what pretenders do.

That's being a bit *too* harsh, I'd say... slashing your Floaties with a borrowed switchblade and diving straight into the deep end has a lot to recommend it as a learning strategy... not, perhaps, if you're learning to freeclimb or BASE jump, but when it comes to things where you retain some say in what happens, such as riding an angrier, more powerful bike than you should be, then it's OK.

The only real issue here is that we're having this discussion before she's even off her L's, which means that, realistically, she hasn't had time to see what kind of rider she's going to be, and it's too early to be forming actual plans to go jumping onto a 10R in a year and a half's time.

As a graphic illustration of how lost n00bs can be without knowing it, when I was on my L's, I entertained serious notions of upgrading to a TL-R... *shudder*

[GForce]

I say leave the girl alone. If she likes it, then she should be able to get it without negative comments.

[Benno]

She asked for advice, got a lot of it, all relatively the same, then decides to disregard what other people have taken the time to explain. Deserved in my opinion.

Good luck with the 10. You'll need it

[Strika]

Without really knowing what experience level you are at it is difficult to offer much in the way of advice. The only thing I will say is that times have moved on. What people of my era progressed to from our restricted licences, even in terms of litre plus bikes, had less power and more weight than a modern day 600!!! So consider it carefully before embarking on this course. Maybe ride a 600 before making the final decision, you may find it more than adequate.

My first Big bike after my restrictions was a 1983 GSX750ESD. It weighed about 225kgs and had about 70hp! My next big bike was a 750GPX. 190kgs and 100hp, then a GSXR1100 with 185kgs and 100hp! These days the 600's are 115-120hp and 160kgs!!!!!! To compare ...

Power to weight approximations.

GSX750ESD=.31111 hp/kg

GPX750=.5263 hp/kg

GSXR1100=.54 hp/kg

Modern 600=.72 Hp/kg

Modern litre sports=Are one to one!!!!!!!!!!!!!



So, in other words A modern litre bike has three times the power to weight ratio of my first big bike after restrictions!

Whatever you decide, as long as it's a kawasaki it doesn't matter!!

[MiG]

WTF is the deal with every muppet wanting to instantly own the fastest track weapon from their favourite Japanese manufacturer? They do make other bikes you know.
Thrash a slower bike on the track and then you can *start* to make a good decision about your next weapon, if it's a weapon you're after.
As for 600s not have much power, I managed to get the rear to slide at over 180 km/h on warmed up dunlop qualifiers at phillip island. This is on a "baby sportsbike" GSX-R 600. Yeah, go on, try and convince me that 600s are slow for people that don't have heaps of track experience.

[NortikittyKat]

WOW didn't this thread take off

I think personally "wanting a 10" and "actually riding a 10" are two very different things.... you might find after riding one (and I mean RIDING one - not doing a blocky) that you don't really want it after all.... then again you may find that you love it... No one can make that decision for you.

When I "NEEDED" my 7 I was told that I wouldn't be able to ride it, it was going to be too big, I wasn't going to enjoy it, I would get rid of it after a few months..... My father almost had a heartattack, my brothers eye's feel out of his head when I told him I bought it.

But the instant I got on the 7 I felt at home. I still have a long way to go on it, trust me, and I am by no means an "excellent" rider, but each time I go out I learn a little more. I still struggle parking it (reversing due to weight of the bikes and my short legs) doing U-Turns and slow stuff, where some one would normally ride out of a parking spot I tend to push the bike so I have a clear take off.... but I am learning.... I sometimes wonder if I had gotten the 6 if I would have progressed faster, but that is something I won't know now!

I have dreams of owning a Z1000 one day, but for the time being I will stick to the trusty ol' sexy 7.

[Stretchy]

Its the same old arguments as Guns. Its not the Gun/Bike that kills someone its the person in control of it.
If you have enough confidence to trust yourself to control your actions on a partiular bike then go for it.
My first bike was an R1 and i was a fast learner and progressed quicker than most. I have always felt comfortable on two wheels so it was just a matter of getting the basics. I am still learning everyday i ride though but for me its all about better control and faster lap times as i no longer have a road bike only a racebike.

Having said that though there is nothing wrong with learning on smaller bikes, i just dont think its a neccesity as everyone has different capabilities and confidence.

I dont know if its the right choice for this person though but some people seem to argue the point because they have been brainwashed it to the fact you have to start on a smaller bike which will make you a better rider which isnt true.

And there are a lot of woman who can ride fast and more controlled than some blokes so that isnt part of the issue either.

[Grunt06GPX]

I read about this all the time on the US Gixxer forums, they have MUCH more experience on this exact issue.

Every "riding season" 10 posts like this occur a day, of people saying they''re going to buy a thousand as a first bike.

Gixxer regulars have reached the point where they just give the people the pat on the back and thumbs up, you rule, way to go response that they're looking for.

The original posters usually don't post on the forums again, its probably best to just lock this thread and take that approach.

[Strika]

Its the same old arguments as Guns. Its not the Gun/Bike that kills someone its the person in control of it.
If you have enough confidence to trust yourself to control your actions on a partiular bike then go for it.
My first bike was an R1 and i was a fast learner and progressed quicker than most. I have always felt comfortable on two wheels so it was just a matter of getting the basics. I am still learning everyday i ride though but for me its all about better control and faster lap times as i no longer have a road bike only a racebike.

Having said that though there is nothing wrong with learning on smaller bikes, i just dont think its a neccesity as everyone has different capabilities and confidence.

I dont know if its the right choice for this person though but some people seem to argue the point because they have been brainwashed it to the fact you have to start on a smaller bike which will make you a better rider which isnt true.

And there are a lot of woman who can ride fast and more controlled than some blokes so that isnt part of the issue either.

Do you mind if I ask If this is an opinion or based on some other information? The reason I ask, is that I hold an opposite opinion! Mine is just an opinion though, not based on any other thing than my own experiences.