*REMINDER* Tagging bikes, what to do, and NOT to do.

[MrsDuane]

SOMEONE stuck ksrc stickers all over my toilet and shower one night.
NOT NICE! They left sticky shit on everything.


DO NOT do to others stuff things that you wouldnt bloody want done to yours! Simple as that.


Kinda off topic a little BUT ive been waiting over a year to vent that.

[Rendrag]

What individuals do with stickers has nothing to do with us. AMCN give out stickers at the GP and Superbikes as do half the teams, riders, manufacturers of spark plugs etc. What happens with those stickers is not the responsibility of the organisations that hand them out.

The actions of these thoughtless individuals is a moral and ethical issue they need to work out for themselves.

Well... That's not entirely true. The entity handing them out does have a responsibility (liability if you will) to ensure that what they're handing out is used in a responsible manner.. Such as newspapers are liable if the paperboy shoves their papers in a drain.. Or a company doing a leaflet drop at a supermarket carpark is liable for any that car owners pull out from under their wipers and throw on the ground..

If someone's bike is stickered, and they can prove that you had even the vaguest idea (which thanks to this thread, you now KNOW) that people might be actually defacing others' bikes with your stickers, then you can be held civilly liable in court if they want to go to the trouble of suing you..

Unless you're keeping signed statements from those you hand the stickers out to stating that they WON'T do such a thing, and they accept full responsibility for all stickers they hand out to others, then you are partly leaving yourself open if someones bike is defaced, and they want to sue you..

Note: IANAL, but I do IT support for a large proportion of the law firms in CBR, and threw it around at one of the offices, and the above was the conclusion..

Regards,

Damien

[Duane]

Damien,

Sorry mate, but the stickers were produced for members to put on their belongings and to help promote the site (hand outs, etc - not for people to stick (unpeel and stick) on other peoples bikes without permission)

So, therefore there was no intention when handing them out that they would be used to deface other peoples property?

In this day and age, isnt it getting above and beyond ridiculous with these matters? public liability, suing a owner of a website forum, because someone who signed up for free and was provided some stickers for their belongings/to hand out to people wanting to join up acts irresponsibly and defaces someone elses property?

Wouldnt it make any sense if it was a legal matter for a investigation into who actually placed the sticker on said vechicle rather than suing people providing a great service for free at their own expense?

This is why people struggle to hold public events, councils can't keep playground equipment and you can't even go out on a groupride without having hissy fits about safety and blaming the group..

We've become too americanized where everyone can sue anyone for anything, for the sake of some financial benefit.

Bit of a storm in a teacup, my bike when I first joined was plastered with KSRC stickers (on a yellow suzuki). When I got it home, i took them off, cleaned it with a bit of goo remover, and all was good.

This is just my opinion in relation to the matter.

[Stereo]

What individuals do with stickers has nothing to do with us. AMCN give out stickers at the GP and Superbikes as do half the teams, riders, manufacturers of spark plugs etc. What happens with those stickers is not the responsibility of the organisations that hand them out.

The actions of these thoughtless individuals is a moral and ethical issue they need to work out for themselves.

Well... That's not entirely true. The entity handing them out does have a responsibility (liability if you will) to ensure that what they're handing out is used in a responsible manner.. Such as newspapers are liable if the paperboy shoves their papers in a drain.. Or a company doing a leaflet drop at a supermarket carpark is liable for any that car owners pull out from under their wipers and throw on the ground..

If someone's bike is stickered, and they can prove that you had even the vaguest idea (which thanks to this thread, you now KNOW) that people might be actually defacing others' bikes with your stickers, then you can be held civilly liable in court if they want to go to the trouble of suing you..

Unless you're keeping signed statements from those you hand the stickers out to stating that they WON'T do such a thing, and they accept full responsibility for all stickers they hand out to others, then you are partly leaving yourself open if someones bike is defaced, and they want to sue you..

Note: IANAL, but I do IT support for a large proportion of the law firms in CBR, and threw it around at one of the offices, and the above was the conclusion..

Regards,

Damien

Your examples dont really compare.. In your examples the people doing the damage are actually paid representatives of the company they are doing the work for.... They are hired and organised by the organisation in question.... In the case of the KSRC stickers, that is not true..... The newspaper companies are not responsible for what you do with your newspaper AFTER it is handed over.... and the same applies to ksrc stickers....

The most comparable thing would be graphiti.... Dulux is not responsible for the graphitti.... neither is bunnings... At the end of the day the sole person responsible is the person doing the graphiti...

[Whitey]

Why not use business cards instead of stickers to tag newbies ? Just knock up a card graphic and post it as a sticky. Members can print them themselves. That's what they do over at ozblackbird.net and that's how they tagged me. Bike shops can often be persuaded to display business cards too.

[Stereo]

Why not use business cards instead of stickers to tag newbies ? Just knock up a card graphic and post it as a sticky. Members can print them themselves. That's what they do over at ozblackbird.net and that's how they tagged me. Bike shops can often be persuaded to display business cards too.

There is nothing wrong with stickers....

There is no need to panic........ Im pretty sure this stickering thing is not a common occurance.

[red_dave]

Why not use business cards instead of stickers to tag newbies ? Just knock up a card graphic and post it as a sticky. Members can print them themselves. That's what they do over at ozblackbird.net and that's how they tagged me. Bike shops can often be persuaded to display business cards too.

Cause a business card won't look as good on my swingarm...

[Rendrag]

Your examples dont really compare.. In your examples the people doing the damage are actually paid representatives of the company they are doing the work for.... They are hired and organised by the organisation in question.... In the case of the KSRC stickers, that is not true..... The newspaper companies are not responsible for what you do with your newspaper AFTER it is handed over.... and the same applies to ksrc stickers....

There's two situations in my example.. In both cases, yes the people doing the placing are paid employees.. That means that the company knows who they are, and probably has contracts in place with them saying that the individuals accept liability.. it also means that if the company is sued, they can pass the buck.. In the case of the leaflets, the company is liable at the local council level for littering if any of their leaflets end up on the ground.. In the case of newspapers, if they end up in a drain, it's the paperboy who's in trouble.. AFTER it is handed over, the recipient has accepted responsibility for the paper, and so the liability on the part of the paper boy and company stops.... The stickers, well, a search of the ksrc site shows that it's promoted for members to leave stickers on people's bikes (though granted, not actually STUCK on), but people go a little too far sometimes and actually STICK the stickers onto peoples bikes.. There's no real recording of who has stickers (or any form of identification of individual stickers to keep those kind of records..), so if someone wants to sue, they're going to go direct to the source (being KSRC), and since that source can't identify who actually did it, the buck would stop with them.. Yes, our legal system sucks..

I know I'd sure be a little queasy at the idea of handing out stickers for one of my clubs if there was a possibility that they'd end up stuck on someones bike without their permission.. I've left OCAU business cards on quite a number of bikes in my travels - I'm always quite careful to place them somewhere where a) they won't blow off and become litter, and b) wont' cause any scratching etc.. I mean, you don't want to piss off a prospective new member..

The most comparable thing would be graphiti.... Dulux is not responsible for the graphitti.... neither is bunnings... At the end of the day the sole person responsible is the person doing the graphiti...

Grafitti is a big problem.. - and the reason why under-18's arent allowed to buy spray cans.. Sometimes under-18's do manage to buy spray cans from bunnings - in those cases, if the owner of the wall/building/fence/whatever the kid bought the cans from could prove where they got them, then they could sue bunnings for the cleanup costs..

Yes, our legal system is becoming rediculously like the Yank system, but there's not a whole lot we can do about that, and we need to think about these things to limit our liability..

Don't get me wrong - I think having club stickers is a great idea (hell, I've been pushing for a new run of OCAU.MC stickers for well over 6 months!), but I'm a little queasy about putting the idea in members' heads that leaving the stickers on bikes is a good idea.. - if you want to do that, go get business cards or something of the sort that CAN'T end up stuck to people's bikes..

Cheers,

Damien

[Rendrag]

Cause a business card won't look as good on my swingarm...

Have both! Stickers for members to put on their bikes (OCAU stickers were always quite strictly controlled, to the point of those in control of them watching you stick them onto your bike..), and business cards handed out freely for members to (carefully) leave on bikes they spot or hand out to fellow rides who they think might be interested in joining..

Cheers,

Damien

[Stereo]

OPC

[MadKaw]

[In the case of newspapers, if they end up in a drain, it's the paperboy who's in trouble.. AFTER it is handed over, the recipient has accepted responsibility for the paper, and so the liability on the part of the paper boy and company stops....
Cheers,

Damien

Therefore the same applies with the stickers. Once I, or the other mods have handed them over, the recipient has accepted responsability and the liability of the owner / mods stops..??
If I give someone stickers, they then own them. What they do after that is out of my control...
Same if we gave out pens and ppl scribbled on stuff..

[Rendrag]

Therefore the same applies with the stickers. Once I, or the other mods have handed them over, the recipient has accepted responsability and the liability of the owner / mods stops..??
If I give someone stickers, they then own them. What they do after that is out of my control...
Same if we gave out pens and ppl scribbled on stuff..

But, the one difference is that unlike the companies, you don't have a record of who had control of the item in question (aka stickers) at that point in time, so you can't pass the liability on.. (Which I thought I said in the quoted post..). Of course, since there's no criminal aspect (unless the guy who's bike was just stickered spots someone doing it and manages to get their details, in which case it's nothing to do with you anyhow..), and it's only a civil matter, the likelihood of anything actually happening is insanely low - unless someone had completely covered a brand new bike in stickers and totally ruined the paintwork, it wouldn't be worth the legal fees for them to try coming after you...

I was just trying to point out that the assertion by an admin above that they had no liability with what people did with their stickers wasn't strictly correct, as they do have the knowledge that some people do actually stick the stickers onto bikes rather than just wedging them between seat and tank or some other non-permanent form..

Regards,

Damien

[Stereo]

But, the one difference is that unlike the companies, you don't have a record of who had control of the item in question (aka stickers) at that point in time, so you can't pass the liability on..

I have some nice alpinestars stickers here....

Are you saying that Alpinestars should be responsible for these stickers because they gave them to a reseller who then gives them away?

Naaaaaaah

[Rendrag]

I have some nice alpinestars stickers here....
Are you saying that Alpinestars should be responsible for these stickers because they gave them to a reseller who then gives them away?
Naaaaaaah

I'm not saying whether they should or not.. The simple fact is that if you were to go and stick them all over someone's bike, and weren't caught doing it, and that person was annoyed and cashed up enough, they could start a civil suit against Alpinestars..

No, they likely wouldn't win (same as a suit against KSRC, though KSRC would likely have a little harder time defending it as a) they're waaaay smaller and b) it's happened before and they're still handing out stickers..), but they *could* bring the suit if they wanted to..

Yes it seems stupid, and yes it sucks.. But that's simply the way our legal system works..

Regards,

Damien

[Neil]

I think its pretty clear that admins are not responsible for sticker usage, that falls to the individual. Lets hope that Members of this club are smart enough not to Stick them on other peoples bikes..

With that said where can i obtain these stickers?