Is this politicion on our side.? - long

[MadKaw]

I know it says no politics, but this is on topic.

From the MCC of NSW

Remember Arthur Chesterfield-Evans and the Democrats come election time.......he's prepared to look at issues on their merit and not just ignore them and arrogantly parrot an election strategy.

Some good questions here and some pretty average answers.

We really need to see evidence of this governments ability to fix even a minor problem of their own making, such as returning the fines and fixing the signs on the Harbour Bridge, but there is the appearance of the "I don't want to know" approach. Well, that cuts both ways I guess. But, they are the incumbent and have the best chance of fixing things. As long as they take that opportunity. We are still getting the short end of the stick. It's the impatience shown in the answers that is showing the attitude.

The Southbound bus lane sign may have been fixed, but the northbound remains a problem and no answer at all on the fines - suggesting a panic or wild flurry response over one sign only instead of a thoughtful look at the situation. This is a sign of incompetence or stressed out desperation. Just fix it and earn some respect. We wait onMr. Margison to respond.




GENERAL PURPOSE STANDING COMMITTEE No. 4

Friday 1 September 2006

Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio areas

ROADS



Excerpts
-----------

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: There was a lane coming off the harbour bridge where motorcyclists have all been fined for travelling in a bus lane. Are motorcyclists allowed to go in a bus lane?

Mr MARGISON: In order to reinforce with motorists that the bus lane coming off the bridge is for correct bus lane users, a sign was put up to remind motorists exactly who those users are. As you would be aware, usage of bus lanes is by buses, taxis, hire cars, motorcyclists and bicycles, but not on the harbour bridge because bicycles have their own lane on the harbour bridge. The sign was inadvertently put up without motorbikes on it; within a number of days that was rectified. If any motorcycles were breached for that offence by the police, we have liaised directly with the police to ensure that they take that into consideration.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: This is in the last few days.

Mr MARGISON: The sign has been rectified, yes.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: This happened in 2004. A bunch of motorcyclists were fined, and we got a letter from Mr Stewart, the Parliamentary Secretary for Roads, saying that the motorcyclists would all be refunded. Now they have all been fined again, with the same signs in the same place. Are you aware of that?

Mr MARGISON: I am not aware of the 2004 issue that you mentioned. What I am referring to is that the sign was rectified in the last few weeks. I am not aware that it was altered in 2004. I will have to take that on notice.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Can you inform the Committee of the number of fatalities of motorcyclists due to wire rope and Armco fences?

ROADS ESTIMATES 27 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006

Mr BUSHBY: My understanding is that with the wire rope there have been no fatalities. In terms of the Armco fences, I would have to check the database to give you a response.

(NOTE from Guy - I have provided Arthur with details of two fatalaities, one from WRB and one from Armco and asked if would pass these on the Messrs Bushby and Wielenga)

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Are you aware that the data for these statistics is somewhat inaccurate?

Mr BUSHBY: In terms of fatalities?

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Yes, in terms of the cause of the fatalities.

Mr BUSHBY: We hear about all the fatalities.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: I am sure you hear about the fatalities but in terms of the cause of the fatalities.

Mr BUSHBY: If there is a fatality where people have hit the guard fence I think the accident investigation at the time would be quite accurate on that.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Is their research into motorcycle fatalities and the effect of crash barrier types? Is this being watched? A couple of years ago assurances were given that there would be research and close monitoring of the situation with Gryffin fences. Has that occurred?

Mr BUSHBY: I am aware that there is a great deal of concern about the type of barrier, the nature of barriers and the effect on different types of road users. Motorcyclists in particular had some concerns about different aspects of the road barriers. The research is ongoing around the world; it is not just an issue associated with Australia or New South Wales. Certainly, the RTA is monitoring the progress of that discussion as it goes forward.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Does the RTA still have Gryffin fences next to the edge of the F4 motorway when there is a huge median strip where the Gryffin fences could in fact be a long way from the road edge?

Mr BUSHBY: I do not know about the particular location you are referring to. Certainly, the Gryffin fences or the wire guard rails are actually designed and located so that they allow for a vehicle to hit the wire fencing and deflect, absorbing the energy from the vehicle and allowing it to re-enter the carriageway that it is actually travelling, rather than to travel across a median into oncoming traffic. That is one of the main safety benefits of this type of fencing. In allowing for that deflection to occur, you have to put the guard fence off centre, especially on the outside of a curve, to allow the deflection to occur without that deflection going into the oncoming traffic on the other carriageway.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: But if there is a wide median strip, would it not be better to have the Gryffin fence in the middle of the median strip, which would give the motorcyclist a lot more space before he or she hit the fence instead of having it right on the edge of the road and then having a median strip beyond that?

Mr BUSHBY: As I said, I do not know the circumstances of the location.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: But you understand the more run-off space there is for a motorcyclist the better chance the motorcyclist will have?

Mr BUSHBY: Any vehicle, in the amount of time. It is about the geometry of the location, and I cannot answer your question.

Mr WIELINGA: It is horizontal and vertical geometry. Very often with median strips there are drainage slides that are steeper than the cross-fall of the road. That has an influence on how the impact is going to occur on the railing. A lot of engineering factors need to be taken into account.

ROADS ESTIMATES 28 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: But obviously if he hits the Gryffin fence at the top when he may not have hit it at the bottom, a motorcyclist would be a lot worse off?

Mr WIELINGA: It needs to be located where it can get the best safety benefit. The impact itself is obviously taken into account.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: As the number of motorcycles is increasing, particularly the step-through type motorcycle, has it had been taken into account in the planning of roads? If not, why not?

Mr WIELINGA: As Michael says, we comprehensively watch what is going on with research and development and policy development. The RTA is a member of AusRoads. We work co-operatively with other agencies around the State. We work co-operatively with other agencies on road safety. We are constantly looking at all of our design standards, not just the ones are you are referring to.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Given that the damage to roads is proportional to or at least the multiple of the mass, or is it the square of the mass?

Mr WIELINGA: It is a little more complicated than that. There is a set of curves called bossany curves.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Given that the registration costs of trucks and cars are proportionate to their mass, as I understand it, why is cost of the registration for motorcycles not also proportionate to their mass, considering the effect they have on the road?

Mr BUSHBY: Certainly heavy vehicles have a greater cost and the weight tax component of registration for those vehicles and light vehicles reflects the mass of the vehicle. There are also administrative components in the registration cost. I cannot answer whether motorcycle registration has a weight tax component but I would imagine it is set in relation to the administrative costs.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Can you give a breakdown of the difference between administrative costs and the weight cost component in registration?

Mr BUSHBY: I would have to take that on notice.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: But can you do so? Can you give me an answer?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: He said he would take it on notice.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Given that motorcycles also reduce the demand for roads—effectively, if you increase the number of motorcycles by a certain percentage you decrease the demand for extra roads by a large component—should that not be reflected in the charges you make on motorcycles?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: I am not sure that assertion is accurate.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Do you think a motorcycle takes up as much room as a car on a road?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: No, I am just not sure that your assertion necessarily follows through in the traffic modelling. We will have to go back and examine what the international research is before we can accept that assertion.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Have you looked at the difference in road demand as the percentage of motorcycles goes up?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: I will take that question on notice.

ROADS ESTIMATES 29 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006



The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: That comes to the nub of my question. If you have not looked at it, I am not going to get an answer.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: I will take the question on notice.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: With the e-Tags, does the RTA have a way of putting e-Tags on motorbikes so it is easy for motorcycle riders and they do not get pilfered?

Mr MARGISON: There is currently no motorcycle-specific tag, however the RTA has been working with motorcycle groups to overcome the issues about having a tag that is out in the open, so it has to be waterproof, and how to mount it on a motorcycle rather than just trying to hold it in your hand as you go through. Prototypes have been designed but there is no final product yet. So, we are working with both tag manufacturers and motorcycle groups on some prototypes to see how well they work and to see how you might attach them to a motorcycle, because not all motorcycles are the same.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: This is almost the identical answer I got last year. What progress has been made? Surely, to find a way to get a tag that will sit on a motorcycle should not be beyond the technological capacity of our society today?

Mr WIELINGA: There are a number of possibilities on this. Getting an effective outcome on this requires co-operation between both the users and the agency that is working on it. We continue to put up technical solutions but at the end of the day we need to come up with something that the motorcyclists can live with. It is a difficult technical problem. There will be a solution in time. We are not giving up on this. We will continue to work with these people to find a solution they can live with.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: It seems to be taking an extraordinary long time. In the meantime, are the fail-to-read charges still made on motorcyclists whose tags do not effectively display or are not registered?

Mr MARGISON: If customers, whether they are on a motorcycle or in a vehicle, have a tag that is working correctly and they have credit in their account, if the tag fails to read for any reason, that is taken into account. All toll authorities know the vehicle that is registered to the tag. If the vehicle can be identified, the toll can be deducted from the account without the need to contact the driver. If the vehicle cannot be identified, for whatever reason—and motorcycles are difficult because the location and position of the number plates—we would then have to communicate with the driver to make sure that it was registered to his or her account.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Do they regularly cop charges when their E-tag does not register because there is no way of mounting it?

Mr MARGISON: I am not aware of any.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Do you say that they do not cop fail-to-read charges?

Mr MARGISON: I am not aware of any.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: It may be the case?

Mr MARGISON: I would have to take that on notice. I am not aware of any.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: There was an announcement today that four-wheel drive vehicles do not have an increased accident rate and thus there will not be any increase in road taxes or registration. When smaller cars are involved in accidents with four-will drive vehicles do the occupants of those cars have worse outcomes?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: That announcement this morning that the honourable member is referring to was made by the Hon John Della Bosca in his capacity as Minister for Commerce. It is probably more appropriate that that question be referred to him.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Do you have any data on the fate of people involved in accidents with four-wheel drive vehicles? Does the RTA keep those statistics?

Mr BUSHBY: We have statistics relating to road crashes and I cannot tell you at this stage whether we have done the analysis to pull the exact question that you are asking, whether that has been pulled out of the statistics. We have obviously seen the reporting of the release this morning. There are some interesting issues related to this release, but obviously we have not had time to study the road safety implications of the report as it has been put in the newspapers this morning.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Will you give us statistics on the fate of occupants of smaller vehicles involved in these?

Mr BUSHBY: I will certainly undertake to see if there is research in relation to that.

ROADS ESTIMATES 42 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: If there is no research, will you do so?

Mr BUSHBY: We will have to look to see.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: We might look at other agencies to see whether that research is done.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: The thought of being hit by a larger vehicle is a major disincentive to people buying smaller vehicles, which they might otherwise do given the increasing cost of fuel. Along that line, does the RTA try to get movement towards smaller vehicles in order to make road capacity better—in other words, to manage the congestion by going to smaller vehicles?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: I am sorry, in what sense?

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Do you try to get commuters in larger vehicles to go to smaller vehicles and do you get commuters to go from smaller vehicles to bicycles or motorcycles?

Mr WIELINGA: There is no definite pricing strategy to do that. We do not interfere with the market out there on the sale of motor vehicles. Our major focus is the standards of motor vehicles and their safety. We are actively involved in national committees that look at these issues. We make a significant contribution to that. The RTA is conscious of the importance of these vehicles on roads. We now have 23 petrol-electric vehicles and 21 vehicles with liquefied petroleum gas. We have more than 200 motor vehicles that are now four cylinders and which used to be larger vehicles. We are adjusting our fleet for multiuse. We are using more commercial vehicles, like utilities, and we are reducing the size of our fleet.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: But you do not do that at a road planning level? At a broader level it is left to the Department of Transport, is that the bottom line?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: With respect, how do you suggest we force people into smaller vehicles? That is not the role of the RTA. This is not a Communist state. If you want to look at the broader sense of encouraging people to public transport, the implementation of a better train system and improved bus lane priorities is a demonstration. We spent a lot of money on cycleways to encourage people to use bicycles as an alternative form of transport. We have T-2 and T-3 lines to encourage more occupancy of vehicles, to take more vehicles off the road as well.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: One might think you could do more for bicycles, Minister, but I will not go to that on this point. Are you responsible for footpaths beside your roads?

Mr WIELINGA: It is the yes and no answer that Brian gave before. It depends on the type of road. Generally, our responsibilities on RTA arterial roads go to the curb and not the footpath, but if you had a footpath on a freeway corridor, for example, we would be responsible for that. You give us a particular area you are concerned about and we will find out for you whether we are—

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: So you are responsible for the footpaths beside freeways, if any?

Mr WIELINGA: I would imagine so because we are responsible for the whole corridor. If they are inside the road corridor, we would be responsible.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: Say, for instance, the Spit Bridge, for which we have announced an $11 million commencement of tender. It includes a new bicycle-pedestrian shared line. Anyone who has crossed the Spit Bridge, which I did the other day, they will know it has quite narrow footpaths and traffic moves quite quickly. So, there we are implementing a bicycle and pedestrian way, which will provide safety for both bicycles and pedestrians.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: So they are not sharing the route? The bicycles and pedestrians are not sharing the same area?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: Yes, they are but it will be a wider line. What is there now is quite narrow. It will substantially improve road safety and remove a major bottleneck from that network.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: With black spots, I understand if there are a certain number of deaths per year you fix the black spot, is that correct?

Mr BUSHBY: The black spot program has prioritisation methodology, which looks at previous history relating to crashes of all types, whether they are fatal crashes or just property damage crashes. That is one of the components that goes into prioritisation to generate the benefit of being able to correct the location so that crashes of a particular type will no longer occur.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: How many dollars do you spend per human life that you can save? Are you going to say the formula is more complicated than that?

Mr BUSHBY: I was going to suggest there is an evaluation of projects, which looks at benefits in a general sense, and improvement in crash outcomes is one part of that.

The Hon. Dr ARTHUR CHESTERFIELD-EVANS: Minister, can you nominate a date for the public release of the public transport options for the F6 corridor?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: I am advised that in 2003 the former Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Natural Resources commissioned a report on the feasibility of public transport in the F6 corridor. That report was completed in October 2004. It is not secret. The report is publicly available from the Department of Planning and a copy was sent to the honourable member for Cronulla in late 2005. The report is a feasibility study not a policy document, and suggests options for heavy rail, light rail and bus along part of the corridor.

The Hon. TONY CATANZARITI: I would like to ask one of the RTA members whether they could give the Committee some information on their heavy vehicle compliance and enforcement?

Mr BUSHBY: I think it is probably appropriate that I address that question. With heavy vehicle compliance there are probably two areas I need to address. The first of those relates to the compliance and enforcement legislation introduced last year, and the second is about our enforcement activities generally. I might start by looking at the legislation.

Since September 2005, when the Government introduced the new chain of responsibility laws, all parties in the transport supply chain are responsible for overloading. Since that time a number of transport companies have been hit with heavy fines, up to $20,000. That is a significant fine. The new laws came into force in September last year and introduced a chain of responsibility concept that makes parties, other than just drivers and transport operators, responsible for behaviour on the road. The laws specifically target companies along the whole supply chain that encourage truck drivers to overload their vehicles on the road.

Previously, compliance with laws in relation to matters of mass, dimension and load restraint was the sole responsibility of drivers and operators. The new laws require not only drivers and operators but other participants to consider their role in upholding the transport law. Now all parties in the supply chain who bring their goods to market—that is the consignor, the packer, the loader, the receiver, the driver and the operator—must all take steps to prevent breaches of the road transport mass, dimension and load restraint laws. Everyone responsible for activities that affect compliance with the law can be held legally accountable for their actions, their inactions and the demands they put on the process.

To reflect this new level of accountability, the new laws come equipped with new penalties for when parties cross the line and are found guilty. The road freight industry moves billions of dollars of goods around New South Wales every year. Many companies in that industry legitimately make millions of dollars out of that industry. Overloading vehicles gives some operators an unfair

ROADS ESTIMATES 44 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006

competitive advantage over companies that act responsibly and legally. Even more significant than this commercial advantage is the fact that the behaviour has a real and adverse impact on road safety and road infrastructure. While the moral blame for this may lie anywhere along the supply chain, the legal blame rested only with the drivers.

The new laws were designed so that responsibility would legally rest with all involved. In particular, it allows for corporations to be identified. I am pleased to advise the Committee that the new laws, which provide for stiffer penalties, are receiving the support of the judiciary. The RTA has made a number of significant prosecutions that have resulted in companies being convicted of major overloading breaches and issued with heavy fines. In a number of cases trucks were caught travelling with in excess of 30 per cent over their legal weight, or three to seven tonnes overweight. Load limits are imposed for good reason. Overloading of this magnitude is dangerous for drivers and other road users; it damages our roads and can prematurely wear out parts of the network.

In May this year two companies were issued with significant fines of approximately $20,000. The fines related to overloading in southern Sydney. The Government is providing a safe industry. Through the new legislation the RTA is able to act to address some of the overloading offences, making the roads safer for everyone. We are minimising the impact of road transport on our roads and saving the community millions of dollars in the process. Those who have been caught pay the price.

I have referred to compliance and enforcement generally. I would like to add that we have elaborate compliance and enforcement arrangements within New South Wales. The Minister mentioned previously that it is a complex arrangement. I would like to highlight a couple of areas. We have an integrated arrangement. Our seven heavy vehicle checking stations which operate largely across the road network also protect most of the access roads into and out of Sydney. Our 300 heavy vehicle inspectors inspect vehicles, monitor the use of the road network and provide assurance that the users of the network are doing the right thing. They operate 42 cars equipped with computer technology. The computers provide inspectors with the information they need about the heavy vehicles they have intercepted, such as registration and licence details. They can look up information about a heavy vehicle on the side of the road.

Through the Safe-T-Cam network, which has 24 sites across New South Wales, the inspectors are able to access information based on Safe-T-Cam sightings to check driver logbook entries. All the various parts of the enforcement network come together in an integrated way to allow RTA management of heavy vehicles. I have already referred to the changed responsibility legislation. The heavy vehicle checking stations have recently been updated to include screening technology so that we can target vehicles that are believed to be associated with risk. That technology draws on all the information we have about particular heavy vehicles. In summary, we have a comprehensive enforcement network and the complementary legislation provides for action to be taken against serious breaches of road transport law.

[Ratmick]

Politicians are on whoever's side they need to be on to get elected. Once they're in all bets are off. Furthermore the Democrats haven't really achieved much anyway, have they? They don't even keep the bastards honest any more .

[RG]

That's a long story to read, can someone please summarise it for the rest the lazy ppl like me?

[Whitey]

In the pollie's eyes the environmental & traffic benefits of increased motorcycle usage are outweighed by the comparitively high host of treating injured motorcyclists. That's why they don't factor us into road planning. They'd rather we just went away.

We can only hope that the current bike sales boom continues until motorcyclist numbers reach a level that pollies can no longer ignore.

[Neka79]

In the pollie's eyes the environmental & traffic benefits of increased motorcycle usage are outweighed by the comparitively high host of treating injured motorcyclists. That's why they don't factor us into road planning. They'd rather we just went away.

We can only hope that the current bike sales boom continues until motorcyclist numbers reach a level that pollies can no longer ignore.

irony is a bitch...if they made safer roads, better trained drivers, and got rid of wire rope barriers..theyd not only have the environment benefits, but also a LOWER cost of treating motorcyclists...

[Stereo]

That's a long story to read, can someone please summarise it for the rest the lazy ppl like me?

Ok...

two dudes talkin... lets call them A and B for the sake of expediency... They are both politicians...

A: "insert pointed question"
B: "Insert carefully worded sentence that avoids answering the pointed question"
A: "rephrase pointed question more subtly"
B: "Insert tentative answer that basically says they are not answering that question any time soon... if ever"
A: "*sigh* Another pointed question regarding something related"
B: "Disclaim any knowledge and promise to look into it"
A: "insert important fact"
B: "Sound surprised"
A: "Ask question about the other politicians surprise"
B: "Promise to look into it and answer the question later... if ever"

At this point just start back at the top and repeat until the noises stopped...

[z900/zx9]

They are enough to drive u to drink while they take questions on notice but never really notice anything except when there is an election I recon they all should be sent to cuba and left in a dark alley

[mike-s]

nah, cuba yes, alley no. we want all the bastards and thieves to cotton onto their existance and take em for alll their worth

[Jonno]

That's a long story to read, can someone please summarise it for the rest the lazy ppl like me?

Ok...

two dudes talkin... lets call them A and B for the sake of expediency... They are both politicians...

A: "insert pointed question"
B: "Insert carefully worded sentence that avoids answering the pointed question"
A: "rephrase pointed question more subtly"
B: "Insert tentative answer that basically says they are not answering that question any time soon... if ever"
A: "*sigh* Another pointed question regarding something related"
B: "Disclaim any knowledge and promise to look into it"
A: "insert important fact"
B: "Sound surprised"
A: "Ask question about the other politicians surprise"
B: "Promise to look into it and answer the question later... if ever"

At this point just start back at the top and repeat until the noises stopped...

Whats so news worthy about that, all pollies do exactly that, some are just better at spin and more polished

[gco0307]

Arthur Chesterfield Evans is a very motorcycle friendly politician in NSW and has provided support for many motorcyclist actions (including Toll rides, exhausts etc).

He has taken issue with many government policies where they appear to be 'anti' motorcyclist and has achieved some positive results.

The interesting point from the Q&A is the 'tone' that appears to be displayed by the RTA guys and Roozendaal at times in response to the questions.

So as hard as it may be I will say that this Politician can't be all that bad if he is trying to help us out.