Can the Police legally estimate speed?

ZX6R_CBR954RR · Post by **ZX6R_CBR954RR** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:06 pm

Consider this hypothetical:

A guy and his mate pull into Sydney after a long ride. After riding at freeway speeds all day they momentarily forget to reduce their speed to the 50kph limit in the city. They ride past uniformed Policemen on foot who notice the riders, and get on their radios. The riders aren’t flagged down so they continue through the city without sighting any other Police.

Could the Police issue a speeding infringement (e.g. by mail) by estimating the riders’ speeds, if so, it comes down to their word against the riders and could this be contested in court with any success?

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:19 pm

dont believe so. But i have no factual evidence to support my answer.

SenNey · Post by **SenNey** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:27 pm

I don't think they can.
But im sure they can say you were speeding, but with out evidence it means jack shit.

aardvark · Post by **aardvark** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:38 pm

Technically.....

Yes.

Would they? If the riders weren't stopped, then proving the identity of the rider is difficult, but there are ways and means. In SA at least, an expiation notice can only be issued to the owner of a car for speeding if captured on speed camera.

Blue14 · Post by **Blue14** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:39 pm

No they can not, must have exact reading for proof. If it were to go to court judge would throw it out.

aardvark · Post by **aardvark** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:58 pm

blue12 wrote:No they can not.

At the risk of sounding childish...

"Yes, they can to."

A judge *may* throw the matter out of court based on the sum of the evidence presented, but it would not be thrown out based solely on the fact that an estimation of speed is given.

I think you should trust me on this matter.

Strika · Post by **Strika** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:10 pm

Aardvark, it's kinda the same as my relo's going and buying cars, when I can save em mad amounts thru my industry ctcs......But will they listen??? Nah !! What would you know mate, you only do it for a living!!!

z900/zx9 · Post by **z900/zx9** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:35 pm

Yes it can go to court

I was pulled over when a patrol car was going the other way he chased me down

chucked a u turn that i didnt see .Estimated speed 130 in a 60

Had a day in court in the end the judge said he believed i was speeding and did me for 80 in a 60

.

rocco · Post by **rocco** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:48 am

I would say if a rider was going lets say 100km/h in a 40 -50 k zone then yes........the policeman should be able to charge him with an estimated speed as it is physically an overwhelming difference.

If the rider is doing 75 in a 50 zone then the cop must be a terminator T-1000 to be able to differentiate from the speed. Then i dont see it viable for an infringement.

And yes for the record i like cops....have 5 as good mates...highway and forensic

cheers

aardvark · Post by **aardvark** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:56 am

rocco wrote:If the rider is doing 75 in a 50 zone then the cop must be a terminator T-1000 to be able to differentiate from the speed.

When you sit at work and monitor the speeds of cars all day with a laser, you become very good at estimating speed. Most of the blokes I work with are accurate to within 2 or 3 km/h!

Rossi · Post by **Rossi** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:16 am

Why don't you lot listen properly ?
We have one of the boys in blue with us who tells you....... yes, don't shoot the messenger

I personally have been banned from driving by the prosecuting officer using an estimated speed.......I fought it tooth and nail in court with the help of a specialist solicitor, didn't help 1 farkin bit because at the end of the day the magistrates decide your guilt. Who are they going to believe ?
Some hairy arsed biker or a fine upstanding member of the force.

I do have to say that the anal approach to speed in Australia compared to other countries (USA and UK) has somewhat dampened my enjoyment

Strika · Post by **Strika** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:41 am

aardvark wrote:
rocco wrote:If the rider is doing 75 in a 50 zone then the cop must be a terminator T-1000 to be able to differentiate from the speed.
When you sit at work and monitor the speeds of cars all day with a laser, you become very good at estimating speed. Most of the blokes I work with are accurate to within 2 or 3 km/h!

Wow that's just amazing isn't it AArdvark!!!!!! Who would have thought it hey!!!!! You do something all day long.....and look what happens.......faark me........ya get good at it!!!!!! That is just so amazing!!! I never ever would have thought that just cause you are doing something over and over and over again that you would actually get good at it. Aardvark, I am gunna go and take this information to Valentino Rossi! He could use this technique to improve his lap times I reckon!!!!! Where's the sarcasm emoticon guys??????

I can just imagine you guys sitting on the side of the road talking shit and then you see a car/bus/bike/truck whatever coming along and it might go something like this..........

"O.K. mate, that white station wagon.........$10 buck says it's 74kph?............"

"Alright, ten buck says it's 71kph...you're on!"

????? Sounding familiar Aardvark???????

I had this conversation with a mate of mine at lunch on Monday, almost word for word. He's a Vic police officer. He reckons he can get to within 3-4 KPH as long as there is not a lot of counter directional traffic. He reckons that can distort things a little. He has been in the Job for 16 years so has "practiced" things a few times!!!!!

Jonno · Post by **Jonno** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:13 am

They certainly can estimate your speed, I know the hard way

Usually it goes..Qld cop. "you were doing in excess of 120?" me "umm well," gets that be honest look from the officer,
"ok i was". "Good he says, done for 20 over", once ticket is written I asked him how fast did he reckon i was doing "oh 130ish at one stage but you dropped it as soon as you seen me", I said "spot on"

I asked him why he didn’t book me for that (not being a smart ass or nothing), he informed me it was easier for all concerned to get people to admit they were doing a lower speed as if not all drivers most know exactly how fast they were going. I highlighted admit as he could have just booked me for 35 over and he would have had a possible contest which I think in Qld wastes his time by having to apear in court??
So he plays fair cop and i realised 20 over wasn't so bad after all

So I asked my brother (cop) He answered the same question as above if they could book someone without a speed measuring device, he told me they have been booking people for estimated speed for many years before even these devices were invented. He said almost all cases of contested estimated speed are proven, he should know he is a prosecutor for Vicpol, but it is the motorists right to contest but usually it is a waste of time.

SO THERE COP IT SWEET

Neka79 · Post by **Neka79** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:16 am

Strika wrote:
aardvark wrote:
rocco wrote:If the rider is doing 75 in a 50 zone then the cop must be a terminator T-1000 to be able to differentiate from the speed.
When you sit at work and monitor the speeds of cars all day with a laser, you become very good at estimating speed. Most of the blokes I work with are accurate to within 2 or 3 km/h!
Wow that's just amazing isn't it AArdvark!!!!!! Who would have thought it hey!!!!! You do something all day long.....and look what happens.......faark me........ya get good at it!!!!!! That is just so amazing!!! I never ever would have thought that just cause you are doing something over and over and over again that you would actually get good at it. Aardvark, I am gunna go and take this information to Valentino Rossi! He could use this technique to improve his lap times I reckon!!!!! Where's the sarcasm emoticon guys??????

I can just imagine you guys sitting on the side of the road talking shit and then you see a car/bus/bike/truck whatever coming along and it might go something like this..........

"O.K. mate, that white station wagon.........$10 buck says it's 74kph?............"

"Alright, ten buck says it's 71kph...you're on!"

????? Sounding familiar Aardvark???????

I had this conversation with a mate of mine at lunch on Monday, almost word for word. He's a Vic police officer. He reckons he can get to within 3-4 KPH as long as there is not a lot of counter directional traffic. He reckons that can distort things a little. He has been in the Job for 16 years so has "practiced" things a few times!!!!!

your really not listening are u strika u smart ass??

he does it for a living, he knows the rules...he has a fairly good idea of what can and cant be done...and if hes wrong, slip him a $100 and he forgets abt the whole thing neway....

bloody hell u ppl ALL kno enough criminal law u should alll become lawyers...

wheres the "fishing" emoticon??..or a "shit stirring" one??

Jonno · Post by **Jonno** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:20 am

Neka79 wrote:*snip* bloody hell u ppl ALL kno enough criminal law u should alll become lawyers...

wheres the "fishing" emoticon??..or a "shit stirring" one??

I am already a low enuff human allready without becoming money sucking scum