What are your views?

[Neilp]

"Saw one coppa the whole day, i guess they were ALL outta town chasing the "weekend sportsbike mountain riders" to give them their free sausage"

This has been posted recently and I am after peoples thoughts on this contentious subject, I know our laws and regulations towards motorcycles are somewhat discrimatory but how about some constructive suggestions that can be taken to our State and Federal representatives.

As a weekend only rider who likes to play in them thar hills, here are a few of my own observations to start things off.

Rider/driver training should be a forefront of State/Federal initiatives ie make it part of the licensing system.
The quality of secondary roads in Qld and NSW need to be looked into(let me qualify this the road doesnt need to be a highway, but looking at some of the road repairs lately, the repair is worse than the hole/bump etc).


Neil

[Felix]

To be honest, I think something will need to be done (or at least at some point it will be done, need it or not) about the quite silly regs that allow riders of minimal ability to go out and buy rocket sleds...

It is probably a concession we'll have to make at some point, and I think we'll also have to get used to different classes of motorcycle licences ie 250, 251 -500, 501 -750, Open for everything above that, but it will of course get complicated (with some justification) by cruisers that have big motors but crap power outputs, so I actually see Learners (LAMS list would be a good place to start for this class), Mids, Sports, and SuperSport type licencing.

Doesn't necessarily mean anything different as far as testing goes, but can it really hurt to get people to do a 3-5 years on a mid size before they go out and buy a litre class rocket?

I did nearly 2 years on the ER5 before I moved up to the XJ900. The XJ was a great second bike for me in a way an R1 or similar wouldn't have been...

Road quality isn't going to happen anytime soon. We have a government that is happy reducing the deficit in a time of very low interest rates (they should be spending money on infrastructure while they can access the money cheaply), and we have labour governments at the state level, so the federal government does all it can to make the states look bad by withholding funding - why do we have a surplus when there are so many things that money needs to be spent on? I digress. Don't hold you breath waiting for roads to improve anytime soon, unless they are of some strategic or economic importance.

Training is a vote loser as the cost is going to have to be bourne by the consumer - the person going for the licence. That's just the way it is at the moment. Once upon a time our taxes provided services for the population for the good of everyone, but that gets called socialism and people don't like that...or paying for something they think they get no benefit from.

Dunno what to do really. No one wants to be bold and brave anymore...

[ZZRCHIKKY]

why if u have ur license in a car can u then go and do one course and go and buy a gsxr 1000 or zx9r , or basicaly anything u want , driving a car isnt the same as riding a bike!


that was statement (a)


statment (b):

ishouldnt all car drivers be bike riding first ? and vvis versa ? so eatch knows what is gunna happen when u cut eatch otehr off ect. so that car drivers know how to treat us on the road ?

[Barrabob]

Well I have to post now because you mentioned the "hills and coppers" in the same sentence.

Yeh i said it all about training in the last thread and there should be plenty of it but how can someone go and train on a bike thats in x many hp per kilo rating without buying the thing first.

I agree that theres people that step off a 250 and go to a r1 and dont have a problem but theres others that centerpunch the first solid object that presents itself.

I will be staying out of them thar hills for a bit yet because i dont want to get my sausage either and i bet the local plods patrolling the hills are happy about that too.

[varden]

mmmmm....i want me a rocket sled

[red_dave]

You can't legislate against stupidity...

Rider training is a start but not the whole solution by any means.

[balanse]

Mids, Sports, and SuperSport type licencing

Future road safety committee meeting = *stats re supersports riders not what we want...lets make these licenses $1500.00 per year*

Divide and conquer.

[aardvark]

Each of my multiple personalities is going to respond to this. One is the "work" me, the other is the "sports bike loving" me. You work out which is which.

1:
Sports bike riders are hassled in the hills by the cops because they are over represented in the death and serious injury categories for road users on said roads. So, the question is why? Here's some possible answers:
a) Riding too fast
b) Riding beyond their skill level
c) Not riding to the conditions
d) Riding with mates causing the rider (because of perceived peer group pressure) to do one or all of the above
e) A combination of any/all of the above

If riders simply slowed down, obeyed the laws and stopped treating the roads as a race track, then the coppers would find something better to do.

Further, road conditions don't need to be improved. If riders did as they should be doing, and riding to the conditions, then there wouldn't be a problem.

2:
OK, hands up who doesn't like to give the bike a good ol' thrash on the twisty stuff? I'm guilty of it. So who's fault is it when we crash? I'd say most of the time it's our own fault.

We can blame the government for crap roads, but if we rode to the condtitions and treated the crap roads for what they are, they wouldn't be a problem. Why do we need the government to fix the roads? So we can ride faster? So we can get our knee's down in the hills? Maybe we could ask them to put in kitty litter and air-fences aswell?

As for rider training, I agree that the current state of rider training for licences in this country is appalling. It's far too easy for unskilled riders to obtain their licence. On the other hand, as individuals, isn't it our responsibility to plod around, riding safely like we've been instructed? If we want to ride quicker and safer, isn't it up to each individual to seek out further training?

If we discourage potential riders (wether they be Harley riders, scooter rider or sports bike riders) from getting their licences then we remain a minority group and the motorcycling shrinks.

If we are honest with ourselves, it's no wonder the coppers are up in the hills harrassing the hell out of us. The reason they aren't harrassing the Ulysses members when they head out for a ride is because they are just tootling around attempting to obey the law. The reason they harrass the rest of us is because quite often as sports bike riders we are riding around at the speed of light, crossing barrier lines orcrashing.

Personally, I say we stop passing the buck because regardless of the size of the bike you ride, it's you who is twisting the throttle.

[Felix]

Further, road conditions don't need to be improved. If riders did as they should be doing, and riding to the conditions, then there wouldn't be a problem.

As for rider training, I agree that the current state of rider training for licences in this country is appalling. It's far too easy for unskilled riders to obtain their licence.

I reckon you could just say motorist in general

On the other hand, as individuals, isn't it our responsibility to plod around, riding safely like we've been instructed? If we want to ride quicker and safer, isn't it up to each individual to seek out further training?

If we discourage potential riders (wether they be Harley riders, scooter rider or sports bike riders) from getting their licences then we remain a minority group and the motorcycling shrinks.

If we are honest with ourselves, it's no wonder the coppers are up in the hills harrassing the hell out of us.

Can't really disagree with any of that. But I do think we will see some kind of catergorisation of licences and bikes...just 'cause that is what pollies seem to do...

[kellz]

Personally, I say we stop passing the buck because regardless of the size of the bike you ride, it's you who is twisting the throttle.

this is very true..

plod have been on the prowl down here aswell.

so what do you do u ride liek we should every day fo the year just not when its DD weekend..

seriously how many times have you gotten on your bike, put your helmet on and thought "game on" seriously, i do it everytime i hit mac pass or kangaroo valley. ive seen mates come unstuck on these roads, yet i still feel i can make it witouth mistake..but i do this within my limits..

i control my throttle not the guy/girl infront or the guy/girl behind. if they dont like my pace, tuff luck, deal with it, i'll gladly move over and let them through and usually find them in the gravel or catch up as soon as we end the twisties cause they are throttle happy and not smooth or looking at the conditions and contsantly on and off the brakes..

its time we started to take responsibility for our own actions cause that what they are our own, and respect the road a bit more...

i plan on riding for many more years to come and i hope i get to ride with all of you one day...

stay safe and ride to the condition, both rider and road.

[Neka79]

i must be getting old...everyhting aardy wrote made sense...even the bit where he was wearing his copper hat!!

and red daves point too...wot was it?? "u cant teach intelligence" or sumthin..yea..that was a good point..

[chameleon]

hey Neil! Dont know about the training stuff /no opinion, but as for coppers up the highway I only saw two patrol cars and a 1 camera on a loop I did yesterday *sunday* up through Warick and killarny, woodenbong, rathdowny and beaudesert. That 45km from the border to woodenbong is a shocker Wont be going over it again anytime soon I hope.

[bonester]

I work in motorcycle training, so I have first hand experience of new riders and their skill levels. I do think that further training could help, but you can lead a horse to water......
Many things I train people on, such as hazard recognition and avoidance get appreciative nods when teaching, but rarely get practiced. Scanning? No-one wants to go to the effort of turning their heads, or looking for upcoming vehicles and the like. Very few want to take responsibility for avoiding hazards- I guess when they get hit they will blame the other driver- maybe at fault legally, but too bad if you are incapacitated for the rest of your life-no more motorcycling too.
Also people progress at VERY different rates. I have had people become EXCELLENT riders within 10 hours of training, and have had others really poor, even after 25 hours of training. It depends on the individual, their motorvation, coordination and motor skills. Intelligence has very little to do with it- I am teaching a guy at the moment who is very smart- recalls everything I teach him, but in application he is still scary after lots of lessons. For this reason I wonder how effective a weekend Q-Ride course for new riders is when they can go in on Saturday, having never ridden and Sunday afternoon they end up with a unrestricted motorcycle licence. When I visited the RTA motorcycle training facility recently, they referred to Q-Ride as 'Kill Ride"....
It seems to be everyone's RIGHT to get a licence- whether appropriately skilled or not- driving especially. Testing in Queensland is a joke. Some people go back to driving tests time after time, and scrape through eventually- (not that the standard is high, or acceptable) I am sure the testing officers get sick of seeing them and give them a licence eventually. I am of the opinion that certain people should NOT drive or ride- they are just not capable of it. Unfortunately we have to share the roads with these people. In my area there is a particular group of people who are the WORST drivers I have ever experienced. They come from a country that doesn't speak english or have cars. Queensland transport gives them a 'Learner's Licence'- so to anyone who doesn't speak english well they see the word 'licence' and think to themselves 'ah I can drive by myself now'. They are responsible for numerous accidents in my area, with a great number driving unlicenced. You just have to look at their cars- mostly modern Commodores and Falcons- all dented and scratched. They have no spacial concepts or speed concepts and cannot keep within their lane. They do not understand what the pedals in the car do, and often hit the accelerator instead of the brake. I have taught over 100 of them to drive and have found less than FIVE to be able to drive acceptably. One I taught a couple of years ago went for his licence SEVEN times- I only took him for one that I was forced to by the company I worked for. I knew he was not going to pass and told him what he needed to do to fix his driving (this one did speak english OK) and he disagreed with me and failed. He passed privately later on. Within a month he had an accident on the Gatton Bypass- killing his fiancee and badly injuring a mate of his. I saw him frequently driving unlicenced and unaccompanied prior to getting his licence too. I haven't mentioned where they come from for fear of being labeled as racist. I have taught people from all over the world with many skin colours and skin colour or race usually have little to do with driving skill, with this one exception. I have taught Papua New Guineans, Maoris, South Africans, Aboriginals, Haitians, etc and had no problems with any of them.
I do believe however that the new laws are rediculous- the effect is that the people who have caused the majority of problems are going to get caught AS WELL AS skilled motorcyclists get fined and or licences taken. That doesn't seem fair at all to me. I am working on a proposal to change motorcycle speed laws. At this point a positive outcome for that looks even far dimmer. Other countries do not have the draconian speed laws that we do. Why should we? At least we haven't approached Victoria yet.

[wazza1234]

let me qualify this the road doesnt need to be a highway, but looking at some of the road repairs lately, the repair is worse than the hole/bump etc

How well we know this. Cecil Plains road west of Toowoomba which I ride on everyday has had a LOT of these patch up jobs on it lately and the repair is lots worse than the little ridge or pothole they attempted to repair...and if thats not bad enough, they didnt even clean up all the gravel...nuf said. And for the record, 5 people died on that road 2 weeks ago...need we say more.

[Lucas]

The reason they aren't harassing the Ulysses members when they head out for a ride is because they are just tootling around attempting to obey the law. The reason they harass the rest of us is because quite often as sports bike riders we are riding around at the speed of light, crossing barrier lines or crashing.

Personally, I say we stop passing the buck because regardless of the size of the bike you ride, it's you who is twisting the throttle.

Maybe I should join Ulysses then if there not getting hassled (and yes I am old enough to be a Jr member)
ok now the joking is done, I have to say I agree with or resident police officer
no one else to blame on a bike
most riders just take off up the twisties with even having a look at the road cause last weekend it was good
if there was more responsibility taken for our own actions and not being worried if someone else is quicker than us

Yep I think the government will do something about it
it's already started people ................... they will force us off the roads because of our own stupidity ........ stupid is as stupid does