The learning curve!

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Strika
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The learning curve!

Post by Strika »

I started riding a while back. Got the bug when I was younger growing up on a farm. While we never had bikes, the kids on the property next door (4 miles away) did. So I got to ride the stepthrus a couple of times, but never really did any serious riding myself.

Then when I left School, I went out and bought a bike instead of a car first up. A CB400 four, 197? model. It was still a late model bike then :oops: I only had it a short time, then had a windfall, and bought a brand new Ducati 1000 mille desmo. Never had a licence though :oops:

A family at a young age forced the sale of the Ducati, and I never rode again until the Early 90's then. :(

A housemate at the time, had CBR1000 then a VFR750. This rekindled my desire, and very soon I had myself a bike again. From hence forward, was when I really progressed in my riding. At first I really had no idea what I was doing (Not a lot has changed hey?) :oops: . I was all over the place, like a lot of riders are at first.

Back then, rider training was pretty much thin on the ground. There were no internet forums yet, as the internet was pretty much non existent. Access to experienced riders thoughts were restricted to what you could gather at each of the stopping or meeting points on a weekend ride, and where for the most part often misguided information, more often than not each conflicting with the others thoughts. :?: :?: :?: So pretty much back then you learnt by trial and error.

Approach a turn faster than your brain could handle, and then struggle your way thru the turn, hopefully learning by each of your mistakes or suffering the obvious lemming consequences. It certainly provided loads of Darwin theory ammunition over the years. :lol:

I think back to how I rode back then, and how I ride now, and it makes me think that there must be loads of talented and experienced people in here with a wealth of information to assist newer less experienced riders in gaining skills and confidence. The only problem being, that as before, each rider has differing opinions, more often than not based on what experiences they have had up to that point.

So with the obvious risk of a million posts disagreeing with me, I am going to share a thought with you, which changed things dramatically for me a long time ago. It was something a very fast road rider said to me quietly one day. His comment stuck in my head, and it allowed me to move through the mental barrier I had in my riding, and it is the one thing even today, which has assisted me in staying on the bike when faced with a challenging riding situation. :)

The majority of single vehicle motorcycle accidents, near accidents or incidents can be narrowed down to one factor.!!! i will paint a picture and see if it rings any bells with anyone???

Group ride. Sunny day, with clear and clean roads. You are riding in a group of 10 or so riders. The leader is a mate of yours, who rides OK, but is a little slower than you most days. You tag onto his/her tail and follow them along. They see you in the mirrors, and immediately you notice the red mist fall over their visor. They wick it up, gassing the shit outta it to keep ahead of you. In their endeavours to keep ahead of you, they extend themselves further than their comfort zone, and actually start riding slower!!!!!!! :shock: They are jumping on the brakes hard and really late, tipping it in, grabbing more brakes mid turn, running wide, and generally heading for a crash.

After one such day riding like this, the person I spoke of, pulled me aside at lunch, and had a little chat with me about what was going on. He quizzed me as to how i felt while i was trying to keep ahead of him, only succeeding in making a twat of myself, running wide and doing all sorts of scary shit. I basically told him that I was shitting myself thru every turn. :shock:

His question to me was WHY??? I thought about it, and then said that basically, when I tipped it in, I lost confidence that my tyres were going to grip!!!! And as soon as this happened, My brain forced me to brake and stand up the bike, hence running wide. Of course I blamed everything but me before that. it was the bike, the suspension, the tyres were shit, the brakes were fading (it was my brain tha was really fading :oops: )

You see it on the race track with the professional racers all the time. They tip it in to a turn after about 3/4 race distance when the tyres are starting to walk around, and often have outbraked only themselves, and although they could make the turn the brain forces them to think, "it isnt gunna grip" and they stand it up n run wide, when they could have actually made the turn had they just layed it on it's side. I have done it myself, both on the track and on the road. :shock:

The comment this guy made to me on that day which really changed things for me was this.

If you have a bike which works as it should, and tyres which are in good condition and are inflated to the correct pressure for the conditions, and you have given the tyres 4-5 klms of riding to warm them up sufficiently. The road is clean and dry, then..........."trust you tyres" they WILL GRIP!!!!

Next time you lean it into a turn, and crap yourself that you are not gunna make it. Don't jump on the brakes and stand it up. Remain calm, trust your tyres and just lean it over a little further. You will run out of clearance well before the tyres let go!!!

Most of it is fear in our heads. Survival mechanism, telling us we are gunna die, which overides our skills confidence and forces us to distrust the tyres. Trust them. They will grip provided they are in good nick etc.,

It will take practice, and for you to push your boundaries a little, but it is the most valuable lesson i have learnt in riding a motorcycle.

Cheers :)
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Post by javaman »

I agree with that as I found out sports riding is abit different then when I ride to tour :lol: Dropped the zx6 the first three months I got it due to gravel intimidation. Few months later learnt to "ride" the gravel and had saved me quite few times. I still don't prefer to do that tho... couldve gone slower :lol:

I also don't do u-turns on the zx6 :lol: cause that's my second drop :cry:
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Post by Stereo »

Believe it or not.... The advice you are handing out right now is the exact piece of information that I was given by a friend of mine a long time ago... in different words..

He asked me to experiment....

He told me to try one corner several times...

the first time I should do it the way I had always done it.... Brake halfway into the corner, accelerate from halfway to the exit....

then he said to try the following... Slow down more BEFORE the corner, and accelerate all the way through!

The difference is this...

the first method meant that I spent most of my time worrying I had come in too hot .... The front of the bike felt really heavy, making me worry that it could lose grip.... It was hard to steer, and I often ran wider than I intended...

the second method moved most the weight from the front of the bike to the back of the bike... I was able to steer easily, and basically I had twice as much confidence in the bike... Not only that, but I no longer had to worry about the grip on the front tire....

Over time the second method has become the prefered method (although the first method is occasionally used when I am being stupid....i.e. I am not riding confidently)...

Yesterday I was on a ride through the spur, the weather was perfect and I easily caught up to a guy on a ZX10R and was hounding to get past him because he was using the 1st method or was not yet confident enough in the 2nd method.... He was trying like hell to get rid of me, but the 50hp didnt help him at all...
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Post by mobile »

Strika, could not agree more, you just need to trust yourself and your gear, then the skill comes with practice
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Post by mohawk miss »

I have not been riding for all that long,and I totally agree with everything thats been said. But I would like to add something that was said to me, and thats "ride your own ride".

In other words, if the people you're riding with are going faster or harder than you can handle, dont think you have to ride like that too. Ride within your own and your machine's capabilities. I know that probably sounds safety-nana, but I have seen the results of this, and its not pretty.

My humble observation.
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Post by mobile »

mohawk miss wrote:I have not been riding for all that long,and I totally agree with everything thats been said. But I would like to add something that was said to me, and thats "ride your own ride".

In other words, if the people you're riding with are going faster or harder than you can handle, dont think you have to ride like that too. Ride within your own and your machine's capabilities. I know that probably sounds safety-nana, but I have seen the results of this, and its not pretty.

My humble observation.


Mowhawk, that is a good point, most come a miss due to riding outside of their own capabilities
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Post by MickLC »

...when I tipped it in, I lost confidence that my tyres were going to grip!!!! And as soon as this happened, My brain forced me to brake and stand up the bike, hence running wide...


I'd just add another thing I noticed after having that situation happen to me, is that you often tense up your shoulders and arms when you go in hotter than you planned. This causes you to run wide as well, as you effectively lose control of the bars. Relax your body, tip it in a bit more, and around the corner you go.
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Post by MadKaw »

Mick C wrote:
...when I tipped it in, I lost confidence that my tyres were going to grip!!!! And as soon as this happened, My brain forced me to brake and stand up the bike, hence running wide...


I'd just add another thing I noticed after having that situation happen to me, is that you often tense up your shoulders and arms when you go in hotter than you planned. This causes you to run wide as well, as you effectively lose control of the bars. Relax your body, tip it in a bit more, and around the corner you go.


Or the tyres let go and you low side.... :oops:
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Post by Stereo »

MadKaw wrote:
Mick C wrote:
...when I tipped it in, I lost confidence that my tyres were going to grip!!!! And as soon as this happened, My brain forced me to brake and stand up the bike, hence running wide...


I'd just add another thing I noticed after having that situation happen to me, is that you often tense up your shoulders and arms when you go in hotter than you planned. This causes you to run wide as well, as you effectively lose control of the bars. Relax your body, tip it in a bit more, and around the corner you go.


Or the tyres let go and you low side.... :oops:


I agree with Mick... if you tense up a lot it really affects your ability to get around a corner....
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Post by Strika »

mohawk miss wrote:I have not been riding for all that long,and I totally agree with everything thats been said. But I would like to add something that was said to me, and thats "ride your own ride".

In other words, if the people you're riding with are going faster or harder than you can handle, dont think you have to ride like that too. Ride within your own and your machine's capabilities. I know that probably sounds safety-nana, but I have seen the results of this, and its not pretty.

My humble observation.


Couldn't agree more....."they extend themselves further than their comfort zone".......It's just confusing ambitions, with current abilities. :wink:

But weve all most likely done it too. i know I have. :lol:
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Post by Strika »

MadKaw wrote:
Mick C wrote:
...when I tipped it in, I lost confidence that my tyres were going to grip!!!! And as soon as this happened, My brain forced me to brake and stand up the bike, hence running wide...


I'd just add another thing I noticed after having that situation happen to me, is that you often tense up your shoulders and arms when you go in hotter than you planned. This causes you to run wide as well, as you effectively lose control of the bars. Relax your body, tip it in a bit more, and around the corner you go.


Or the tyres let go and you low side.... :oops:


On a normal road bike with decent tyres on, unless you do something silly like grab a handlefull of front anchors, or the road surface is compromised you should run out of ground clearance well before the tyre lets go shouldn't you Dave??? Your not talking a track lowside are ya??? :lol:
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Post by javaman »

This interests me. How many of us actually *have* low-sided on the road ? And at what speed / why ?

Not talking about picking up the bike and run out of black stuff :lol:

I had only one experience many moons ago, 150cc honda, 30kph corner and sand (not gravel). Lost front tyre and fell on left hand side. The bike kept sliding and hit oncoming car. Not pretty and lesson learnt there, hence I don't commit on corner with oncoming cars (unfortunately oncoming bike is harder to spot and as deadly :? )

Another question for the riding guru out there... do you use rear brake to bleed speed ? I do this religiously and most of the time just for the comfort knowing I can slow down if required... Some reading teach on how one should only roll on-roll off the throttle but I found this too *scary* especially reefton?
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Post by smek »

I have, on my old zzr 250 because of cold tyres (bt45's). probably around 50-60k/h on a 90 degree right hand turn. end of summer and everything was colder than it had been lately. ignored the feedback from the bike and took the corner at the same speed I had every other day.

you have given the tyres 4-5 klms of riding to warm them up sufficiently


broke this rule.
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Post by mobile »

javaman, I have found that using both the roll on roll off and the rear brakes work well, when I are confident that I am at a decent speed for the corner then I will roll on roll of, but for a corner where I think that I may be a little hot, I will touch the rears to kill some speed but then roll off and on to control the corner, anyone got other suggestions?
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Post by Strika »

smek wrote:I have, on my old zzr 250 because of cold tyres (bt45's). probably around 50-60k/h on a 90 degree right hand turn. end of summer and everything was colder than it had been lately. ignored the feedback from the bike and took the corner at the same speed I had every other day.

you have given the tyres 4-5 klms of riding to warm them up sufficiently


broke this rule.


You were probalby still on the brakes.....just like you do now :lol: :lol: :wink:
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