Duty of Care (long post)

[Tones]

I agree Tanya. To be competent first requres the right attitude. That is first and foremost.

In victoria they get their learners and are legally allowed to wobble around unescorted, personally i think that's more dangerous

It is a very basic test designed in part to satisfy TAC the Vic Roads have taken "reasonable" steps to ensure safety. Vic Roads are strong believers of gaining experience through experience. Hence the here is your "L's" go have fun and don't die. I have seen many people whom meet the legal requirement and I have to sign off on their "L's", but I give some people some very strong encouragement (tell em what I think) with regards to additional training, and get LOTS of practice before even considering hitting the road. It would be the hardest part of my job to sign off whne legally they are deemed competent, but simply fluked the test.

Personally I think it is a combination of training and practice. You can experience a skill in a day, but to learn it takes time and repitition. Many people get a level of training, and that gives them the confidence to go out and gain experience!!! Either way attitude is the decider as to how it is done. I see many ppl come in and get/fluke learners on a Sunday, with the plan to ride to work as of the next day through peak hour traffic, on a bike they are not familiar with....not the best attitude.

We all know ACT and recently NSW have adopted power to weight restrictions. I would say based on history, Vic will follow it is just a matter of when.

Cheers

[bigtez]

RG: she was cute until the blood and puss started flowing from her shoulder and knee. You never know the scars may still be a turn on for some blokes.

As for being to poor to buy a jacket and gloves, the jacket she was wearing was a morrissey that she reckons cost about $900. Another one of the riders returned a shop loaner jacket that morning which i believe was for that exact purpose.

Now my other gripe.

After she had her off she was groggy and looked to be bordering on passing out at times. However they didn't put her in an ambulance and get her back to a hospital to be thoroughly checked out. Instead they sat her beside the road for about 3hrs waiting for there tow truck guy to come and get the bike. Then they were going to pillion her to brisbane hospital. Eventually they saw a bit of sense and sent her to ipswich hospital with the tow truck guy.
Then the 2 blokes that were 'in charge' of the ride went to rathdowney to have a beer and the rest of us headed home. A few kms down the road we realised that no one was going to the hospital with her, or was going to help her get home to hendra from ipswich. Thats when 3 of us decided to go to the hospital and make sure she got home allright.
Originally there was a support car organised to follow us but the boss in his infinite wisdom decided that it wouldn't be needed.

Maybe i am just grumpy cos i wasted 3hrs on the side of the road and 4hrs in a hospital waiting room.

[Lainie]

Well just my little 2 bob's worth. I think it's her own fault. We as riders know what can and does happen. Did she not feel that she could tell them she was not comfy in riding yet? I know when you guys have arranged a ride in the past I have always said I would like to come along but am slow and not ready just yet. I also know that riding gear was made for a reason and wear it at all times. If I don't have it I don't ride very simple. To me my life is worth far more than any price tag you can put on any protective clothing.

[ttc]

bigtez, if it was a pro honda ride can you tell me either in a pm or post it.

The going to the pub, no ambulance being called is unacceptable..
I see the boss all the time, he is a good bloke, if this stuff is going on he needs to know about it.

But as far as the gear goes.. it's not the shops responsibility.

[MadKaw]

Is KSRC responsible if I go on an organised ride with them, ill prepared and hurt myself? I don't think so. I'm responsible.

Just a note, in addition to the discaliamer posted by RG, please be aware KSRC do not have organised club rides. The rides posted to KSRC are organised by the members not the "club"... The club is merely used as a base for ppl to contact each other... if you get my drift...

[Stereo]

If I organised a ride and someone showed up who wasnt wearing decent safety gear, I would ask them to leave... nicely ofcourse.... but still.. I wouldnt want them on my ride...

It is common curtiousy to show up with decent gear.... None of us want to go on a ride and face the opportunity of having to spend half a day at the emergency ward..... (or at least, more of a risk than we already take)..

[Nanna10r]

"A Baptism of Fire", by the sounds of it.
Firstly i hope the young lady recovers quickly & the financial dramas & bike repairs are'nt too inconvenient for her.

I'm with the "ride at your own risk" responders. No one is reponsible for anothers choices & actions.
But it sounds like their wasn't a lot of concern about anything other then what's in her pants besides her wallet to begin with, which is a real shame. I certainly would be bagging the Ride organisers publicly so that they dont make the same mistakes again.

I cop a fair bit of niggle for being a "Nana" off the guys i ride with, because I would rather have someone think i was a "bossy turd" then & "uncaring one". Besides it doesn't take much "Nanaring" to have a safe & fun day out instead of sitting on the side of the road & waiting for tow trucks.

I take my hat off for your concern in lending her the gloves & following up with the hospital visit/getting home arrangements.
I hope this doesn't put the young lady off. Please pass on our best & tell her to come out with Janelle & I when the bikes fixed. We have continued with the quiet "non posted newbie rides" recently.

Pugs you ok mate ?
Cheers Brett

[bigtez]

Pontikat: After sitting in the hospital and talking with her i don't think she has learnt. That is the scary part. She came off at about 100kmh and didn't seem to phase her.
Her step dad paid for the bike and insurance so she should be ok financially. Her hands weren't hurt so she could go straight back to work.

I agree with the rider responsibility however when a known newby is talked into coming on a ride knowing that she has neither the experience or the safety gear, then i think some responsibility should be taken by the organisers. Particularly when they had the means to rectify half the problem.

I don't think the bike will be fixed ever but if i do see her again i will let her know about your rides.

[Neilp]

come out with Janelle & I when the bikes fixed. We have continued with the quiet "non posted newbie rides" recently.

Interesting Brett that you think that newbie rides should be your responsibility. Why non posted?

Neil

[diesel]

i only read the first few posts.
now i don't belive anyone is reponsible for this girl coming off except herself.
having said that, did anyone of the more experienced riders at the start of the ride, stress to her that they's been doing this a long time and she shouldn't try to keep up. just go at ur own pace. we'll wait at the next point and we'll have corner markers.
Ron, Rossi and smitty all did that with me and suddenly i wasn't putting any pressure on myself to follow their pace.

oh yeah, and is she cute?

[I-K]

Your opinions Please

How about "Are you serious?" I know it's a question, not an opinion, but it sums up my take on the whole thing quite thoroughly...

Going on your followup posts, she sounds like a spoilt idiot. Shouldn't've loaned her your gloves.

[Duane]

Pontikat: After sitting in the hospital and talking with her i don't think she has learnt. That is the scary part. She came off at about 100kmh and didn't seem to phase her.
Her step dad paid for the bike and insurance so she should be ok financially. Her hands weren't hurt so she could go straight back to work.

I agree with the rider responsibility however when a known newby is talked into coming on a ride knowing that she has neither the experience or the safety gear, then i think some responsibility should be taken by the organisers. Particularly when they had the means to rectify half the problem.

I don't think the bike will be fixed ever but if i do see her again i will let her know about your rides.

1. Only ride as quick as you're comfortable too.
2. If you dont have the correct gear - IT IS NOT anyones responsibility but the persons who are riding without the correct gear. Don't give a flying fk if it was a bike shop organising the ride. Those jackets are worth money.
3. You fall off - you deal with it - not anyone elses fault but your own.

[Gosling1]

Now my point. Is it unreasonable to expect that a dealership would forbid someone to ride with them when they know that:
1. they don't have enough protective clothing
2. they have bugger all experience (she was 18yo, never had a car licence and only been riding a couple of months)

Personally i think they should have provided her with a loaner jacket and gloves before we left the dealership. But instead they were to busy trying to get inside her pants.

Your opinions Please

Terry

1 - The organisers should have stipulated proper protective gear. If they didn't, then the ride was poorly organised right from the start. ( and your comment about the *boss* deciding that a recovery vehicle was not required, well that says it all really .... ).

As soon as you saw her riding poorly, then she should have been moved to the back of the pack, with a more experienced rider to ride 'shotgun', in case anything happened.

Of course, there is always a silver lining to any cloud.........people only learn from mistakes - she has just made a ripper, and can only learn from it. This is a good thing. Next time she goes on a ride, you can bet she will have proper protective gear.

[Felix]

By the sounds of it, the ride organisers should be named, as they seem to have handled the situation poorly, and I wouldn't want to risk anyone going with them if something REALLY bad happened. Remember, it isn't defamation if it actually happened

[I-K]

By the sounds of it, the ride organisers should be named, as they seem to have handled the situation poorly, and I wouldn't want to risk anyone going with them if something REALLY bad happened. Remember, it isn't defamation if it actually happened

Er, actually, it is.

On one level, this is a bit of a common-sense thing. You don't have to have been riding very long to start getting the idea that, based on the number of demo bikes they stick into bushes, bikeshop staff, as a group, seem to ride around like complete fucksticks. Given that, how clever an idea would it be to go on a ride with them?