A tale of a ZX9R, an old lady and the NRMA...

[Yenzarill]

Long story short, a friend was riding my Ninja and an old lady cleaned him up. The following is my dealings with the NRMA.

The bike has lots of superficial damage, the carbon fibre exhaust broke & also the steering stop snapped off the frame. The bill came to $9077, which included a new exhaust kit and frame.

It is not my insurance policy, it is the old ladies (She had comprehensive.)

The inspector was at my house today (Hence why I have been hunting around the internet, and found this wonderful place.) to assess the bike. So he is happily looking at the bike, filling out his checkboxes on his clipboard. Then I handed him a quote for $9077 to repair it. He nearly gagged. I showed him what was wrong with the frame, and explained that I had been told it couldn't be welded back on and the entire frame needed replacing. I also said I had safety concerns about the frame being repaired with a welder.

Anyway.

He said that it is most likely easy to weld it back on, but said he would have to consult experts on the subject. I really hope I get the frame replaced, because if they try repair that frame I will seriously have the shits.

So now I propose these questions to you, the biking community, who may have experience in such matters.

a) What are the chances of them deciding that frame is repairable? My bike mechanic says not to worry, because it is standard practice to replace a damaged frame and they won't tell me it's fixable. But I'm worried. I want the thing replaced. Not fixed. Well, actually, I want the money.

b) Because it's not my insurance policy, and I am the third party, they can't write off my bike, correct? They have to give me the money to fix it, correct? My understanding is I will be recieving money, the only question is how much. Or can they take the wreck and settle for what they say it is worth?

c) Is the frame actually repairable? Would I be ok if I paid a couple of hundred bucks to get it welded up and pocketed the money they give me to replace the frame? (Assuming they do...) Surely welding up aluminium isn't impossible. Would that be legal? Or is that somehow insurance fraud?

d) I want a ZX12R. Would I be better off selling my wrecked ZX9R as-is, and then using all my cash to get a 12, or would I get more money if I fixed the ZX9R, sold it, then bought the 12?

I hope someone here has gone through this before... Thanks for any help / advice / reassurance.

[slojo]

even at $9 grand repairs for a 98 zx9 i'd have thought it'd be a writeoff straightaway, not even considering frame damage.
usually as soon as there is frame damage it's an automatic writeoff.

when i crashed my last zx6r i was told that if the repair quote came to more than like 70% of the insured value they'd write it off.

and i don't think the fact that it's the other party's insurance policy has anything to do with it.

[Yenzarill]

Well, that is what I thought, but the assessor guy said that because it wasn't my policy, all they did was a cash settlement.

Thinking about it, I don't have any dealings with the NRMA, what right do they have to take my bike? A lady damaged it, the NRMA has agreed to insure HER. If I want it returned to how it was, that should be what happens. I never signed anything saying that the NRMA could have my bike if it was wrecked.

So how can they justify taking away my bike?

I'm not sure. No expert on the subject. I'm just anxiously waiting to hear back from the guy to find out what's happening.

It only has 35,000 kms on it and has heaps of rego.
I also just had it serviced, two new michelin pilot power tyres, new chain. That was only 300km ago.

[Nanna10r]

Firstly mate why isnt your insurance poeple talking to "Me Nana's" insurance people, Your not gonna tell me your not insured (not even third party) are ya. Cause thats pretty risky cause bad shit can easily happen with bikes.

Ok sorry about that "Nana speech" onto with the questions.

A SCRATCHED frame let alone cracked equals Write off. End of story. Why ?, cause they cant guarantee Metal integrity an you can SUE their arse off if it can be seen as a contributing factor in any subsequent accident. Mention that n watch thier insurance guy Run for the check book.

They will probably Red book the Value of your 9 give you the cash n they get to sell the wreck, or they will pay their repairers to repair it or maybe give you the money to get it repaired. If they do give ya the cash sell it as a wreck n go get yourself a 12r, insure the bugger & keep your mates away from "Me Nana".

Hth.
Cheers Brett

[I-K]

Well, that is what I thought, but the assessor guy said that because it wasn't my policy, all they did was a cash settlement.

To be fair, this assessor sounds like true to type; wouldn't know a bike if he tripped over one.

From an insurance standpoint, *ANY* damage to the frame and the frame's a bin job, to be replaced with a brad-spanker from the factory. Further, any kind of scuffing to any metal component, like a lever, or the bottom of a forkleg, or the swingarm, and that part's supposed to be replaced, too.

I still remember one particular cream-cheese bagel who tried to make out like you could fill and buff out gouges taken out of a clutch perch; it ain't a front guard on a VK Commodore, mate.

So how can they justify taking away my bike?

By paying for it. They give you a sum equal to an agreed value for the bike in its pre-accident condition, and they get to keep the wreck. But until a sttlement is agreed on, what's left of the bike is yours.

Alternately, you agree on what's called a salvage value for the wreck, and you get to keep the wreck plus a payout equal to the agreed value for the bike minus the salvage value.

I'm not sure. No expert on the subject. I'm just anxiously waiting to hear back from the guy to find out what's happening.

OK... I've been led on this particular merry dance four times now, most recently when my R1 got wiped out in a 70kph rear-ender.

Guy came around. He had just as little clue about bikes as your guy did. Despite there being a hole in the crankcases, the subframe looking like it had been ambushed on the road to Baghdad airport by cahns firing rocket-propelled grenades and yelling "Allahu akhbar!", the tank being actually ripped open and so on, he reckoned the bike's salvage value was four grand, while replacement value was nine grand, because, at that time, you could get brand-new R1's for 14.5 grand.

I told him to get fucked and to get the fuck off my front lawn, in so many words, and that next time, I expected to deal with someone who has a clue. I then instructed my lawyer to quibble with them over the $3500 or so in go-fast bits I had on the bike (Akrapovic pipe, Pen$ke rear shock, Over rearsets, steeering damper, partridge in a pear tree...). In the meantime, I sold the wreck to a mate, who wrote me a receipt for $750. Metaphorically, I slapped this on the insurance company's desk and, after a few more rounds of offer-rejection-counteroffer-getfugged and so on, I got a semi-decent payout. Still nothing like what the bike was worth to me, but a hell of a lot better than their initial offer of $5000.

My immediate advice to you would be to cash in the rego (add the cancellation fee to your claim) because, whatever else happens, this matter isn't going to be resolved in any kind of hurry; trust me on that. Then, have a chat to a lawyer who specialises in traffic matters (they advertise in bikemags, and most will have an informal chat with you, advising you to do something similar to what I just did). You might even consider engaging the services of one. Your costs can be tacked on to the rest of your claim (the other guy's insurance company will typically pick up about 70-75% of your legal costs), and insurance companies have this way of being a lot more compliant when it's a law firm's letterhead on your correspondence to them.

I could prattle on. Any more questions, feel free to send me a private message... in fact, I would insist that you do. I've had insurance companies try to screw me over, and I've watched them succeed in screwing over mates and family, so I take their ploys and plays personally. If there's something I can do to ensure a regular person doesn't get jacked, I'll do it.

Seriously, mate. Fire away.

[Mojo67]

Yep my thoughts too. Should be going through your insurance, EXCEPT if its a total writeoff. If you have the time to wait, its worth going through this bullshit exercise with NRMA, because as soon as your insurance company writes it off (which they will) you'll lose the balance of your premium. That might be worth a few hundred backs or a lot more than that.

I would persist down the NRMA line. They will give you somewhere around market value for the bike, and say good bye to the dramas. Then cancel your own insurance and get your money back.

Had I known all this when I lost the ZX6R I wouldn't have gone bikeless for 8 hassle filled months, but sometimes you just have to climb these hills yourself.

[mike-s]

because as soon as your insurance company writes it off (which they will) you'll lose the balance of your premium.

uhm, did you miss the line stating "it's not my insurance that's covering this"?

I would persist down the NRMA line. They will give you somewhere around market value for the bike, and say good bye to the dramas.

Hire a bike specialist lawyer, even if it is for an initial consultation to help you with what direction to go down. I'd be asking for someone else to look at the bike too.

Had I known all this when I lost the ZX6R I wouldn't have gone bikeless for 8 hassle filled months, but sometimes you just have to climb these hills yourself.

*sigh* i cringe whenever i see people dealing with insurance, it's bound to end in tears, one way or another.....

and as a final tip, failing everything else, get 3rd party property insurance on your next bike at a minimum, it will cover your arse for up to 5 grand (or more? not sure on this) and gives you free access to their lawyers for sticky situations such as these. Good luck mate.

[James]

Firstly, if you are claiming through the at fault party's policy, their insurer cannot take your bike from you. They only do that to their own insured as it is part of terms of the insurance contract. You have no contract or agreement with the other party's insurer. They need to settle the claim by 'putting you back in the position you enjoyed prior to the incident which caused loss"

When they settle you, they'll pay you the cost of fixing your bike, or the cost of replacing your bike - less salvage. So they estimate what your bike was worth prior to the incident and then subract the value of the bike in its present condition and pay you the difference. If thats the case, you have the option of selling the bike for the most you can get for it and keep that money in addition to the payout or use the payout to fix it. If you cannot sell the salvage for the value they estimated, make a note of the places (wreckers usually) that you visited, go to at least 3, and call the assessor and tell him. Also, if you had any personal items damaged, i.e jacket, gloves or helmet make a claim for those also.

Remember that you are not in the wrong and the insurer will try and pay the smallest amount possible. Ask them to substantiate every decision they make and stick to your guns.

[Yenzarill]

... their insurer cannot take your bike from you. ... You have no contract or agreement with the other party's insurer.

That is what I thought.

When they settle you, they'll pay you the cost of fixing your bike, or the cost of replacing your bike - less salvage. So they estimate what your bike was worth prior to the incident and then subract the value of the bike in its present condition and pay you the difference.

So, too bad if they decide it's worth $4000 as the wreck it currently is, and that it was only worth $8000 before the crash. I'll be left with $4000 and a wrecked bike. I get the impression they won't be giving me the $9000 to fix it... it would be cheaper for them to say it was worth $8000 and "replace" the bike. Damn.

Also, if you had any personal items damaged, i.e jacket, gloves or helmet make a claim for those also.

Yeah the helmet seems to be no worries. He said I would get $400 for that (I showed him the receipt.)

[seraph]

Request that her insurance send out another assessor, because you don't htink that the one they sent you did a competent job. Ask for one with motorcycle experience (ie, an ex-motorcycle mechanic - that's one of the things they look for when they hire assessors, so they should be able to find one for you). Be adamant that you want ti reassessed, by someone with the discretion and skills to assess it properly - ie not a car expert, a bike expert. Worked for me, I got a brand spanky new original part rear frame.

My two cents.

[Phil]

this is also one of the advantages of being insured. tell your insurance company what happened, they then chase the old sheila while your riding around on yer new zx12r.

trust me - i know

[Jonno]

You can always hire your own assessor and add it to the bill. A legal eagle is your best bet if the offer they make is unrealistic.

[YAPPA]

tell insurers that assesor is an incompetent fool, who has no fucking idea, frame damage = statutory write off. full fugen stop.......the fact that this half assed dingaling even gagged at the amount of the quote, shows that he has NO FUKEN IDEA when it comes 2 motorcycles, DO NOT TAKE ANY SHIT FROM THE BUNCH OF CARNTS...as u can tell i hate this sort of shit, hence, this is why my bike still has no fairings on it & is being painted for the 5th time in 6 months.....DOHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! (maybe this time they'll colour match it properly) take em 4 what u can m8...if granny couldn't see u in the first place, she shouldn't b fukin' drivin!!!!!!

[Ment]

I was disscussing this with a friend in inssurance and his advice is to go to a frame expert (we've one called Snowy Ardell he in adelaide) and get them to sign a letter saying the frame is cactus and it cant be repaired. Armed with that, now heres the best trick of all, go to the NRMA and if there saying the wreck is worth $4000 ask them to where and them get them to get offers from salavege ppl. its kinda up to them to prove the wreck is worth what they say it is.

[Yankee]

i hate insurance companies.
good luck mate.