600cc vs 1000cc lap times

[Strika]

big gap for a corner speed track

Yeah... how close to an A grader can you get????

That's like comparing my lap times on a 1995 model bike to someones on a 2005 model bike. Or comparing a factory A grader with a C or D grade Privateer. Another brilliantly even comparison drawn by yourself.

Oh and that gap is 4.6%........ massive!

[MadKaw]

Marty, you would have smashed the 2005 superstock bikes on your 95 model..

Lap times from the 2005 Aus superstock championship at P.I.

1 64 C Dale BROADFOOT (NSW) / Onlike Motorcycles Albury Honda CBR 600 6 10:34.626 1:44.257 5
2 21 C Darren EDWARDS (QLD) Yamaha R6 600 6 10:40.948 6.322 1:44.638 5
3 11 C Chris CASELLA (VIC) / Sopranos Bar & Resturant Yamaha R6 600 6 10:43.172 8.546 1:45.638 5
4 12 C Danny HIGGINS (VIC) / Vern Graham Yamaha Yamaha R6 600 6 10:43.328 8.702 1:45.309 5
5 15 C Daniel FIGUEIREDO (QLD) / Fishermans Wharf Racing Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:43.365 8.739 1:45.528 6
6 4 C Aaron PHILLIPS (VIC) / First Permanent Home Loans Yamaha R6 600 6 10:47.597 12.971 1:45.723 6
7 66 C Dean BONTHORNE (VIC) / http://www.deano66com Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:49.910 15.284 1:46.133 6
8 38 C Neil WEBSTER (VIC) / Ewington Homes / Madaz Kawasaki ZXR 600 6 10:53.934 19.308 1:46.477 6
9 9 C Shane INGRAM (VIC) Yamaha R6 600 6 10:55.150 20.524 1:47.397 4
10 25 C Ryan TAYLOR (VIC) Yamaha R6 600 6 10:55.509 20.883 1:47.058 3

and been top 15 in Supersport in 2005, and in some good company too

1 25 A Joshua BROOKES (VIC) / Joe Rocket Honda Honda CBR 600 8 13:12.926 1:38.036 3
2 1 A Adam FERGUSSON (VIC) / Joe Rocket Honda Honda CBR 600 8 13:18.743 5.817 1:38.824 2
3 45 A Jason O'HALLORAN (VIC) / Rocket Racing Honda CBR 600 8 13:18.903 5.977 1:38.777 2
4 21 A Joshua WATERS (VIC) / Kawasaki Racing Team Kawasaki ZX6R 600 8 13:23.408 10.482 1:38.994 8
5 8 A Mark AITCHISON (NSW) / Fraser Motorcycle Yamaha Team Yamaha R6 600 8 13:23.463 10.537 1:39.134 8
6 17 A Jordan COOTE (VIC) / Yamaha GYTR / Valter Moto Yamaha R6 600 8 13:24.193 11.267 1:39.320 4
7 42 A Jeremy CROWE (NSW) / Rapid Bikes Magazine Honda CBR 600 8 13:24.891 11.965 1:39.224 5
8 68 A Caleb STALDER (NSW) / John Holland Honda CBR 600 8 13:33.600 20.674 1:40.193 4
9 78 B Jarradd CURRAN (NSW) / MSC Products Yamaha R6 600 8 13:38.499 25.573 1:40.686 4
10 67 A Bryan STARING (WA) / Allect Racing Honda CBR 600 8 13:38.865 25.939 1:41.150 3
11 99 A Mark STANLEY (NSW) / Lismore Motorcycles Yamaha R6 600 8 13:39.474 26.548 1:40.881 6
12 77 A Hayden FITZGERALD (NZ) / Bernard Racing Suzuki GSXR 600 8 13:46.409 33.483 1:41.808 4
13 51 A Dustin GOLDSMITH (NSW) Honda CBR 600 8 13:47.959 35.033 1:41.904 6
14 87 B Gareth JONES (QLD) / Gold Coast Yamaha Yamaha YZF R6 600 8 13:51.503 38.577 1:42.548 6
15 52 B Alex CUDLIN (NSW) Yamaha R6 600 8 13:51.944 39.018 1:42.693 7
16 23 A Christopher SEATON (VIC) Kawasaki ZX6R 600 8 13:52.941 40.015 1:42.611 8

[Jonnymac]

Sooooo also didn't think I'd enter this either but I'll just put a little opinion in....

I reckon if your an "A" grader there's not a huge amount in it obviously we know around 5% from the figures supplied but if your an average track day punter at PI HP helps a LOT!

Talking from experience here, I'm on a 600 doing 51's admittedly I need to sort my gearing down the straight as I'm barely hitting 210 km/h off the gps but all I ever see is blokes who are slow in the corners twisting the gas down the straight going past me like I'm standing still and still pulling similar lap times.
I got on a mates 10 and within 5 laps was only 2 sec of my PB at the time and I know I wasn't anywhere near the same corner speed as my 6 and it was only the second time I had ridden a 10, last time was only 5 laps too!

So I think if your not a rider that can get 97% out of the bike HP helps , that phenomenal torque that you can just ride out of the corner if you get it wrong

[MAXUMIS]

Sooooo also didn't think I'd enter this either but I'll just put a little opinion in....

I reckon if your an "A" grader there's not a huge amount in it obviously we know around 5% from the figures supplied but if your an average track day punter at PI HP helps a LOT!

Talking from experience here, I'm on a 600 doing 51's admittedly I need to sort my gearing down the straight as I'm barely hitting 210 km/h off the gps but all I ever see is blokes who are slow in the corners twisting the gas down the straight going past me like I'm standing still and still pulling similar lap times.
I got on a mates 10 and within 5 laps was only 2 sec of my PB at the time and I know I wasn't anywhere near the same corner speed as my 6 and it was only the second time I had ridden a 10, last time was only 5 laps too!

So I think if your not a rider that can get 97% out of the bike HP helps , that phenomenal torque that you can just ride out of the corner if you get it wrong

i can see that side, but i think if someone could get 100% out of a liter bike it would have to be substancialy quicker,just remember 3 to 4 seconds doesn't sound much but you add it up in feet per second at 250+kph and thats a big gap across the start finish line at PI.. just my 2c.

[Jonnymac]

Absolutely it's a huge gap over the start finish line but I don't think that's exactly the topic, we are talking % , I don't know about you but if I get 95% on a test I'm rapt as it's pretty dam close to 100% so the question is wether PI is better on a 1000 than a 600, HP wise.

Now don't read into too much with my previous statement cause I'm kinda sitting on the fence. But I'm leaning towards it being a HP track as the everyday punter will be quicker on a thou, wether when you have 70% more HP at around the same weight yet only doing doing 5% faster around the track makes it a HP track will be debated......

[Jonno]

isn't PI or any track about entry speed then most importantly exit speed, isnt this where a rider can do the best in setting the whole corner up?

HP has nothing to do with it IMO, otherwise my 12R would eat yas all FFS It use to out drag any litre bike and even the 14 not being a true Ninja with an R

IMO it is about rider overall

[MAXUMIS]

i think im just going to jump back on the fence

[StuMiller]

So, based on the evidence provided, for the average punter/road rider, there probably is not alot in it. Howerver, for those of you who regularly race and can utilise the 1000's extra power and deliver this far more effectively, a 1000 is roughly 4-5% quicker? Over a race, this gap can be quite substantial.....

[smithy5]

HP has nothing to do with it IMO, otherwise my 12R would eat yas all FFS It use to out drag any litre bike and even the 14 not being a true Ninja with an R

Gloves off now you have dug up the 12 -v- 14 debate....
The 14 doesn't have an R cause it's a standout and there is the Rest, hence the need for the R

now back on topic.... 600 -v- 1000

[StuMiller]

1000cc vs 1200/1400cc?

[Blurr]

isn't PI or any track about entry speed then most importantly exit speed, isnt this where a rider can do the best in setting the whole corner up?

HP has nothing to do with it IMO, otherwise my 12R would eat yas all FFS It use to out drag any litre bike and even the 14 not being a true Ninja with an R

IMO it is about rider overall

So we're you faster on your 6r or 10r.

Same rider on a 600 or 1000, which one will produce a faster lap time?

[98ninja]

I think everyone is overlooking the midrange of a 9...............

[born green]

So, based on the evidence provided, for the average punter/road rider, there probably is not alot in it. Howerver, for those of you who regularly race and can utilise the 1000's extra power and deliver this far more effectively, a 1000 is roughly 4-5% quicker? Over a race, this gap can be quite substantial.....

Correct again,
Remember this question was asked about P/I so simple, my question to everyone is...put kev on his r6 and r1, same day, back to back, and any other rider that rides both, wayne ect. which bike are they going to get a quicker time on, lap after lap???
Kno which i would be bettin on..

[smithy5]

Remember this question was asked about P/I so simple, my question to everyone is...put kev on his r6 and r1, same day, back to back, and any other rider that rides both, wayne ect. which bike are they going to get a quicker time on, lap after lap???
Kno which i would be bettin on..

So why doesn't Kev, Wayne and everyone else get another 400cc and race the 14

[MickLC]

I was always under the impression that "horsepower" tracks are like the paperclip where you've got a lot of tight corners joined together by long straights, so you're doing a lot of point-and-squirt and the bigger horsepower bikes have more of an acceleration/top speed advantage than they do at a cornerspeed track like PI where you're on the side of the tyre more and the advantage isn't as great.