clutch fingers

[Shifty]

I brake with two fingers (was one temporarily when I got my current bike as I couldn't reach the non-adjustable lever comfortably), clutch with all four. That said, I rarely use the clutch except when in crawling traffic or when coming to a standstill.

A bit off topic but regarding the other point that has been raised... I found a reliance on the rear brake to be very much a beginner trait. As a beginner the rear brake is something used regularly for balance and stability... but it was only after I had an accident that I noticed my addiction to the rear brake in general riding.

I was using the rear to adjust my line through a corner - that is, to pull the bike down and tighten a turn I had underestimated. That's fine, and is probably a good skill to have... but after my accident I realised what was happening.

Instead of developing the skill of looking through corners, I wasn't planning far enough ahead and was getting surprised too often by watching the road going under my tyre (not literally, but you get my point). Unfortunately prolific use of the rear brake masked the problem causing this so I was able to go fast without the necessary skills - instead of the rear brake being something extra to throw in when I needed it, I came to rely on it to get through corners safely on a regular basis.

Enter a scenario where I'm on a road I don't know, playing with people on bigger and faster bikes, and all it took was a corner that surprised me more than normal... too easy, just use a little rear and correct the line... oh crap it's even tighter than I thought! On went the rear brake, the rear tyre locked up, I panicked and then into the weeds I went!

[JamesLaugesen]

Well said Shifty.
The stability mostly comes from having more tension in the chain; which transfers more centrifugal force through the gearbox... good for balancing at red lights.
I noticed stability (or lack of) took away a lot of my attention when I was starting out too, but eventually you realise we have more than enough stability from our wheels... traction is the worry, haha.

[Smitty]

....snip....Instead of developing the skill of looking through corners, I wasn't planning far enough ahead and was getting surprised too often by watching the road going under my tyre (not literally, but you get my point). Unfortunately prolific use of the rear brake masked the problem causing this so I was able to go fast without the necessary skills - instead of the rear brake being something extra to throw in when I needed it, I came to rely on it to get through corners safely on a regular basis.

yeah
very much a bad trait
lots of learners do it btw
the answer is....KEEP YOUR HEAD UP
and look where you are going (or want to go)

it takes lots of experience/practice to get out of this bad habit
and even now, I still have to remind myself -
drop the wrists and
keep the head up when riding


cheers

[aardvark]

rear brake?
neka and James use it to tip the bike in quicker
which is the same reason I do it

I use my rear brake so often the disc has surface rust on it...

Oh, hang on, I just worked out what it IS good for. Doing big blackies on cement when you're coming to a stop.

[gizmo]

I find I alternate between 1 & 2 fingers on clutch & brake.
It all depends on whats happening, doing a clutch up wheelie I use 1 on the clutch, but pulling up to a stop I use 2.
Braking hard I tend to use 1, but really hard I use 2.
All depends on how light the clutch/brake lever effort is?
The new radial mount brakes are easy to use 1 finger on & still do an impressive endo.

[Yankee]

wow, an endo with 1 finger.... have only ever done it with a FULL FIST!!! although, my brake reservoir is looking decidedly black... so it may be time to flush the farcker out...... (been thinking that the brakes haven't been biting as good as before).....

[ty]

..snip...
Slowly getting out of the habit of hovering over the rear-brake while cornering ty

ty
just outta curiosity ..why?

Mainly because I'd heard from a few people that as Shifty says it was a beginner's safety net and can cause problems in a panic situation mid corner if you accidentally lock the rear wheel. I don't know how true that (safety net) really is, but it prompted me to have a go at leaving it alone.

The reason I tend to ride/hover the rear brake is as others have said - it provides some extra stability and helps corner entry. However I've found that when I make a conscious effort to not do it, plan the corner better and use better throttle control I end up with a much better cornering technique and hold better speed through the corner.

Hence why I'm trying to get out of the habit of using it and only use it when conditions require it.
Hope that makes some sense
ty

[Smitty]

...
Hence why I'm trying to get out of the habit of using it and only use it when conditions require it.
Hope that makes some sense
ty

yeah mate
it does
and I agree, never use the rear as an 'out' for other bad habits

[JamesLaugesen]

..snip...
Slowly getting out of the habit of hovering over the rear-brake while cornering ty

ty
just outta curiosity ..why?

Mainly because I'd heard from a few people that as Shifty says it was a beginner's safety net and can cause problems in a panic situation mid corner if you accidentally lock the rear wheel. I don't know how true that (safety net) really is, but it prompted me to have a go at leaving it alone.

The reason I tend to ride/hover the rear brake is as others have said - it provides some extra stability and helps corner entry. However I've found that when I make a conscious effort to not do it, plan the corner better and use better throttle control I end up with a much better cornering technique and hold better speed through the corner.

Hence why I'm trying to get out of the habit of using it and only use it when conditions require it.
Hope that makes some sense
ty

Sounds good to me
Careful though, when I kicked the habit I kicked it totally for a little while, which is just as bad I recon... The coin for safety can go the other way too, in that you might jump on the brake because of extra distance to the pedal, or might miss-time the brakes and be hard on the front while your foot's on the rear.

It's great on the track to squat the front down before getting hard on the front into a corner, then if you need to change direction quickly out of a corner getting on the rear lightly as you accelerate will keep the front down low and let the bike flick over quicker. Esspecially on the flip-flop at OP if you stuff your line and don't want the front coming up mid-lean.

I tried to find some good articles on rear suspension design re torque arms but no luck, just a heap of car designs, haha. If anyone knows of a good article could you post it please?

[zxsixr03]

I use 2 on up changes and 3 on down change don't ask mw why thats just the way it happens but check this out, who else brake hard like this??? 3 out side fingers on the lever and thumb and 1st finger on bars?? tried it the other day and kept gettin my fingers caught on th lever....

[Neka79]

well after goin for a ride yesterday, i must re-evaluate...
i always use 2 fingers for braking, i can do a endo with 2 fingers, and there is NO WAY i can get my brake lever to the bar without pushing the brake pads through the pistons-thankyou wave discs/braided lines...
i use the 4 fingers on the clutch (when using it) simply cos otherwise i crush my bloody fingers ...then again when tear arsing thru hil...i mean the track, i use no clutch...

[JamesLaugesen]

who else brake hard like this??? 3 out side fingers on the lever and thumb and 1st finger on bars?? tried it the other day and kept gettin my fingers caught on th lever....

I use my two outside fingers and sometimes the middle one, but when I use the middle I don't think I put any force on the little. Dunno why.
We have the most 'gripping' strength in the two outside fingers. Thumb and pointer are dextrous and stuff, middle finger is a comprimise for shooting arrows and having conversations with crap drivers.

I use the two inside fingers on the clutch coz it moves so much and need good control, I use the outside fingers while I'm waiting at lights or whatever though.

Using the outside fingers on the brake makes it easier to control the throttle with thumb and pointer.

See, God wants us to ride motorbikes... fast

[samhasa636]

It's great on the track to squat the front down before getting hard on the front into a corner, then if you need to change direction quickly out of a corner getting on the rear lightly as you accelerate will keep the front down low and let the bike flick over quicker. Esspecially on the flip-flop at OP if you stuff your line and don't want the front coming up mid-lean.

Just talkted to James about this theory and we ageed this para might be a little confusing for newbies.

The point is the rear brake is not the best way to change lines. thats what your bars are for. Personally, I wouldn't recommend the rear brake for anything more than a tight U-turn and lane splitting. But each to their own.

[JamesLaugesen]

I should've said rear brake AND throttle... keep accelerating (even to maintain constant speed while turning you need to accelerate) while the rear brake's on VERY lightly. I can't imagine a time you'd ever slow down with the rear brake while leaned over.

So the engine is driving the gearbox, driving the chain, driving the wheel, and the brake is resisting - slightly. So there's some extra tension through the chain and gearbox. The chain becomes a more solid connection, holding more centrifugal force.
That makes it's easier to balance with the clutch in, the engine reving a bit AND 'riding'/'dragging' the rear brake (without the brake there's only a tiny bit more balance because the clutch is so small, you want the solid connection through the chain to transfer force to the wheel).
That's also where the sense of balance comes from when you drag the brake through corners, which is dangerous imo coz it means you're scared/concentrating on the wrong things. At speed, we have more than enough balance from the wheels.

The "keeping the front down" / "squat" is a different thing... the wheel is spinning one way and it's attached to the swingarm. The brake is resisting it and attached to the wheel axle. The brake caliper is gunna be pulled around with the wheel. So it's fixed to the swingarm, and the force is now pushing/pulling down on the swingarm.
A moment close to the axle will squat the back suspension down; as the moment gets longer and force is applied closer to the swingarm pivot, the front suspension is pulled down with less affect on the rear suspension.

Oops, forgot to finish...
So, dragging the rear brake can pull the front down, mostly noticable on bikes with torque arms (connecting the rear brake to the end of the swingarm or sometimes fancy setups on the suspension links) and/or squat the back down, mostly noticable on bikes without torque arms.
But you definitely don't want to be concentrating on it much at all... it's waaaay down there in my list of priorities while riding.

It might be difficult to differentiate what you're feeling while doing it too, which is dangerous... you might feel good, but you may have just started braking earlier and gone through the corner slower, or you may have a slightly different posture because of using your foot, or you may be experiencing the extra balance, blah blah blah.

I only started doing it again after 'kicking the habbit' like Ty and improving my other points. I find I don't get much input from shifting foward on the ZXR so I started experimenting with the drag breaking after reading some things on it, and I just went from there.

*big breath* haha.
Sorry for writing so much. Sam just got me worried about a new rider taking it the wrong way and having a scare.
PS - I don't consider myself a 'fast' rider, but I love learning about our ultra techy hobby and always up for some more knowledge. Which I sometimes even get to use Wooo, so If someone can correct me on anything please do.

[Glen]

Your rear brake will do many many things but mainly to do with stabilising the bike by providing some drag thus keeping the back in line when your braking hard in a straight line or pulling it in when your cornering.

Personally I use it very little and I don't advise students to use it in corners as it really should be for those more experienced.

As for clutches and brakes, the instructor in me says four all the time but I use two and only the inside two, except when I'm commuting when I use four on the brake. As for using your outside fingers and not the index and middle this is extraordinarily dangerous guys and is unlikely to give you the strength you need to stop hard ie in an emergency. If you doubt this jump into a carpark and do some really hard stops ie with the front starting to lock. Remember the number one mission here is to stop not to worry about the throttle. The outside two fingers should be sufficient to hang on remembering that you really don't need to hang on that tight anyway.

In the end it's personal choice but whatever you do, particularly where braking is concerned practise it constantly.