600cc vs 1000cc lap times

[MadKaw]

Want me to lock the thread now boss?

Yep.!!


Damn - too late........

[stetto]

They r both fun ride what u want

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[born green]

They r both fun ride what u want

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Here, here Ride em, enjoy em.
I ride a thou, but i got a lot of respect for what a good 600 can do!!!!

[StuMiller]

Good thing I asked.....point taken, case closed. Great discussion though....


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-42.818014,147.608134

[Strika]

The 600's mid turn speed at the Island is higher. With a litre bike, to use the power advantage best, you need to stop it a little more mid turn so you can stand it up and shoot it out more than you do on a 600. A 600 carries higher entry speeds too. Exit speeds is down on the litres though.

Think about Siberia. On a 1000, the later you can apex it the better, as it enables the power to be put down and then short shift as the track drops away to increase drive and reduce wheelspin and wheelstanding as you try and throw it left hard to apex the Hayshed late. On a 600, entry and mid turn speed is higher, but the 1000's suck your fairings off coming out. 10, 11 and 12 however, I catch and pass litre bikes through here as they are leant over while trying to put 160+hp through the tyre. the 600's are fucking fast through here and the entry speed before standing it up would probably be similiar to a litre bike.... till the litre gets on it But, if you get a good run through this last series of turns, you can sit with a faster bike all the way to one, where you can shove it up the inside under brakes. They'll mug you into 3 and you'll outbrake them into Honda. If you can make a little gap from there to Lukey, they often can catch you into the braking area at one, but not pass usually

I can't wait till I am well and financial again. All this thinking about the Island is giving me wood! I really, really, really wanna ride my ZX6R again. Oh, and I wanna flog Jonno's 10R for a PI run too. Jonno... what ya reckon? Will I have to do those terrible things again, or will you just let me ride it?

[Strika]

Oh...and don't lock it boss..... it's been fun

[StuMiller]

You can ride mine at the island.....if ever we meet there.....


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-42.818263,147.608507

[Blurr]

You are still dodging the question Marty.

You brought up wss and moto2 when the question and statement from me referred to aussie super stock.

Bayliss did 1.33 in 99.

I do know you well enough that this convo would happen exactly the same in person, just as I would be saying the same back. Infact I believe we may have it again over a burbon next time and you might even realise your a bit off the mark .

Back on topic

Geez all this and it all still points to the same. 1000's tend to dominate over the 600's by a greater margin than other track . This is largely due to the big open sweepers were a 1000 can get the power down ( 600 simply can't
match that). Tighter tracks like Broadford and WP have long been dominated by 600's over 1000's due to weight / agility and traction issues. Nullifying any advantages that a 1000 may have with HP.

The gap is only going to grow. As 1000's become smaller ( Fark Jonno's 10r feels like exactly the same size as my 600) get more power, traction control and quick shifters.

[Blurr]

The 600's mid turn speed at the Island is higher. With a litre bike, to use the power advantage best, you need to stop it a little more mid turn so you can stand it up and shoot it out more than you do on a 600. A 600 carries higher entry speeds too. Exit speeds is down on the litres though.

Think about Siberia. On a 1000, the later you can apex it the better, as it enables the power to be put down and then short shift as the track drops away to increase drive and reduce wheelspin and wheelstanding as you try and throw it left hard to apex the Hayshed late. On a 600, entry and mid turn speed is higher, but the 1000's suck your fairings off coming out. 10, 11 and 12 however, I catch and pass litre bikes through here as they are leant over while trying to put 160+hp through the tyre. the 600's are fucking fast through here and the entry speed before standing it up would probably be similiar to a litre bike.... till the litre gets on it But, if you get a good run through this last series of turns, you can sit with a faster bike all the way to one, where you can shove it up the inside under brakes. They'll mug you into 3 and you'll outbrake them into Honda. If you can make a little gap from there to Lukey, they often can catch you into the braking area at one, but not pass usually

I can't wait till I am well and financial again. All this thinking about the Island is giving me wood! I really, really, really wanna ride my ZX6R again. Oh, and I wanna flog Jonno's 10R for a PI run too. Jonno... what ya reckon? Will I have to do those terrible things again, or will you just let me ride it?

finally your theory. Still dont agree with it.


Get someone thew same skill on that thou and I doubt you will still have the same theory

[Jonno]

I really, really, really wanna ride my ZX6R again. Oh, and I wanna flog Jonno's 10R for a PI run too. Jonno... what ya reckon? Will I have to do those terrible things again, or will you just let me ride it?

It would be great to see you out on track again mate, and I would rather you just rode the bike

The gap is only going to grow. As 1000's become smaller ( Fark Jonno's 10r feels like exactly the same size as my 600) get more power, traction control and quick shifters.

It feels way better than my 07' 6 ...lighter/easier/ balanced, but I think my 6 is a little out in its geometry setup or the 2011 10R is in another world on its own as it steers so easily and just feels so damn good.

[Strika]

I really, really, really wanna ride my ZX6R again. Oh, and I wanna flog Jonno's 10R for a PI run too. Jonno... what ya reckon? Will I have to do those terrible things again, or will you just let me ride it?

It would be great to see you out on track again mate, and I would rather you just rode the bike

The gap is only going to grow. As 1000's become smaller ( Fark Jonno's 10r feels like exactly the same size as my 600) get more power, traction control and quick shifters.

It feels way better than my 07' 6 ...lighter/easier/ balanced, but I think my 6 is a little out in its geometry setup or the 2011 10R is in another world on its own as it steers so easily and just feels so damn good.

i wonder if it will steer as good as my old 95 model ZX6R F1 racer. It's hard to believe, but the thing is nice to steer. It will frame flex a bit and things arn't quite as sharp as a more modern chassis, but it's front end has so much feel and feedback that you can have the front tyre howling into the turns and know where the limit is, sometimes even step a little over it and it gathers itself back up. I spose this is how the Aliens prolly describe their chassis Imagine frame flexing a MotoGP bike.... fark you'd have to have some G forces generated.

[tim]

It feels way better than my 07' 6 ...lighter/easier/ balanced, but I think my 6 is a little out in its geometry setup or the 2011 10R is in another world on its own as it steers so easily and just feels so damn good.

Hey Jonno know if your 6 has had the rear jacked up?

[Jonno]

Hey Jonno know if your 6 has had the rear jacked up?

Prolly needs it, feels heavy to steer, it was all good until I rode the 10.

[MadKaw]

Heres some interesting info, over 10 years at P.I. the difference between the superbikes and the supersports...

Aus superbike times from 2001 - P.I.

1 1 A Craig COXHELL (VIC) / Radar's Team Yamaha Yamaha R1 1000 7 11:25.311 1:36.818 5
2 5 A Robert BAIRD (QLD) / Radar's Team Yamaha Yamaha R1 1000 7 11:25.357 .046 1:36.863 5
3 15 A Josh BROOKES (NSW) / Geoff's Auto Spares Honda CBR 929 7 11:25.548 .237 1:36.346 6
4 9 A Jamie STAUFFER (NSW) / Radar's Team Yamaha Yamaha R1 1000 7 11:29.616 4.305 1:37.083 4
5 16 A Alex GOBERT (NSW) / Redwing HRC Honda CBR 929 7 11:37.839 12.528 1:38.136 6
6 87 B Luke PHILLIPS (QLD) / RMS Competition Engines Honda CBR 929 7 11:37.890 12.579 1:38.216 2
7 36 A Steven CUTTING (NSW) / Bar Ristretto Suzuki GSXR 1000 7 11:39.007 13.696 1:38.614 7
8 7 A Damian CUDLIN (NSW) / Bike Biz Racing Yamaha R1 1000 7 11:39.129 13.818 1:38.690 7
9 3 A Tony REES (NZ) / Bike Biz Racing Yamaha R1 1000 7 11:39.149 13.838 1:37.902 7
10 4 A Graeme MORRIS (NSW) / Graeme Morris Motorcycles Suzuki GSXR 1000 7 11:42.149 16.838 1:39.136 4


Aus supersport times from 2001 - P.I.
1 86 A Cameron DONALD (VIC) / Brown Gouge / Mick Hone Racing Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:18.383 1:41.164 6
2 49 B Brendan CLARKE (QLD) / Springwood Suzuki Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:18.748 .365 1:41.620 6
3 11 A Rodney TAPLIN (NSW) / Terry Hays Shock Treatment Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:18.916 .533 1:41.387 6
4 19 B Nicholas BARTON (VIC) / Sale Honda Honda CBR 600 6 10:19.582 1.199 1:41.463 3
5 39 B Rory ROCK (NSW) / Rock Motorcycles / Pirelli Honda CBR 600 6 10:19.733 1.350 1:41.791 6
6 17 A Andrew WILLY (VIC) / Brown Gouge / Mick Hone Racing Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:25.242 6.859 1:42.326 4
7 27 A Greg MOSS (VIC) Honda CBR 600 6 10:25.364 6.981 1:42.161 3
8 41 C Glenn HOLLAND (VIC) / Christensens Motorcycles Warragul Yamaha R6 600 6 10:31.574 13.191 1:43.367 5
9 13 A Mark SAMPSON (VIC) / The Boardroom Of Melbourne Yamaha R6 600 6 10:31.791 13.408 1:42.968 5
10 26 A Mark AITCHISON (NSW) / Graeme Morris Motorcycles Suzuki GSXR 600 6 10:32.393 14.010 1:43.376 6


and 10 years later

Superbike
1 21 A Joshua WATERS (VIC) / Team Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R 12 18:56.688 1:33.558 2
2 47 A Wayne MAXWELL (VIC) / Team Honda Racing / Oleon Oils / Doric Prod. / Motologic Honda CBR-RR 12 19:00.166 3.478 1:33.814 4
3 27 A Jamie STAUFFER (NSW) / Team Honda Racing / Oleon Oils / Doric Prod. / Motologic Honda CBR-RR 12 19:06.555 9.867 1:34.345 2
4 17 A Troy HERFOSS (NSW) / Team Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R 12 19:12.762 16.074 1:34.399 2
5 1 A Glenn ALLERTON (VIC) / Procon Maxima BMW / Dynomotive / Zoom Recruitment P BMW S RR 12 19:17.348 20.660 1:35.094 2
6 6 A Robert BUGDEN (QLD) / Team Mack Trucks Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R 12 19:17.368 20.680 1:35.069 2
7 11 A Craig COXHELL (VIC) / Demolition Plus GAS Honda P Honda CBR-RR 12 19:24.820 28.132 1:35.430 2
8 12 A Ben ATTARD (QLD) / The i-Style Natural Aprilia Team / Archers / MOTUL P Aprilia RSV4 12 19:37.857 41.169 1:36.720 4
9 18 A Ben HENRY (QLD) / CUBE Racing Australian Outdoor Living / Weld West P Suzuki GSX-R 12 19:38.509 41.821 1:36.485 4
10 26 A Chris TROUNSEN (VIC) / Procon Maxima BMW P BMW S RR 12 19:47.568 50.880 1:37.008 5

Supersport
1 68 A Glenn SCOTT (NSW) / WNR Kawasaki / Insure My Ride / Stahlwille Tools / Motul P Kawasaki ZX6R 12 19:44.663 1:37.862 7
2 25 A Brodie WATERS (VIC) / Team Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R 12 19:44.697 .034 1:37.927 12
3 12 A Kevin CURTAIN (VIC) / Yamaha Racing Team Yamaha YZF-R6 12 19:49.864 5.201 1:38.214 3
4 95 A Paul YOUNG (SA) / AARK Racing P Triumph Daytona 12 19:50.758 6.095 1:38.140 8
5 35 A Mitchell CARR (NSW) / Carr Bros Morotrsport / Triumph Australia P Triumph Daytona 12 19:50.963 6.300 1:38.186 4
6 20 B Rick OLSON (VIC) / Yamaha Racing Team Yamaha YZF-R6 12 19:50.984 6.321 1:38.039 4
7 3 C Michael JONES (QLD) / Reece Bancell Scholarship / Yamaha / Draggin Jeans P Yamaha YZF-R6 12 19:50.998 6.335 1:37.681 4
8 52 A Ryan TAYLOR (VIC) / SW Racing / Powerhouse Motorcycles P Yamaha YZF-R6 12 19:57.102 12.439 1:38.154 5
9 96 A Aaron GOBERT (NSW) / Gobert Motorsports / Yamaha / Alpinestars / Bell Helmets P Yamaha YZF-R6 12 19:57.147 12.484 1:38.749 5
10 82 A Chris QUINN (NSW) / Coopers Pale Ale P Yamaha YZF-R6 12 20:04.035 19.372 1:39.228 5


The difference in the fastest times between superbike and supersport at both these events is exactly 4.3 seconds - but 3 seconds quicker in the 10 years..

[MadKaw]

and from the last round (can't get superstock from 10 years ago)..

1000 prostock - P.I. -(on the weekend)

1 3 A Pat MEDCALF (VIC) / Yamaha Racing Team Yamaha YZF-R1 9 14:49.226 1:37.468 4
2 65 B Cru HALLIDAY (NSW) / YRD - Carbon Imports & Accessories Yamaha YZF-R1 9 14:51.493 2.267 1:37.838 6
3 20 C Matthew WALTERS (NSW) / Kawasaki Connection Racing / Rovers CD Kawasaki ZX10R 9 14:54.194 4.968 1:38.017 4
4 38 C Linden MAGEE (QLD) / Coastline Motorrad Racing / Magee Racing / Gas Strut Marine CD BMW S RR 9 15:02.547 13.321 1:38.208 3
5 24 A Chas HERN (VIC) / High Octane Motorcycles / Pope Building Services Honda CBR-RR 9 15:05.797 16.571 1:39.888 4
6 50 A John ROSS (NZ) BMW S RR 9 15:20.965 31.739 1:39.945 2
7 22 C Nathan HOUTERMAN (QLD) / Averys Concrete Cutting Services / Porters Plainland Pub CD Honda CBR-RR 9 15:21.157 31.931 1:41.077 3
8 33 B Phil LOVETT (NSW) / Lovett's Earthmoving Kawasaki ZX10R 9 15:24.049 34.823 1:40.503 7
9 54 C Chris WACKER (QLD) / Morgan & Wacker / OGK Helmets / Five Groves / QBE CD BMW S RR 9 15:24.913 35.687 1:40.741 4
10 15 B Ben NICOLSON (VIC) / Elliot Bros Kawasaki Racing Bendigo Kawasaki ZX10R 9 15:27.613 38.387 1:41.415 4


600 superstock - P.I. (on the weekend)

1 25 D Daniel FALZON (SA) / Yamaha Pitmans / Jon Daniels Racing Yamaha YZF-R6 8 13:35.240 1:40.738 2
2 32 D James BECK (NSW) / IXON / Arlen Ness / Shark / Yamaha / Belray / Evermil Yamaha YZF-R6 8 13:35.423 .183 1:41.160 7
3 93 C Adrian DI GIANDOMENICO (VIC) / Stafford Motorcycles / Azzona Drainage / Wurth Australia Yamaha YZF-R6 8 13:35.598 .358 1:40.876 7
4 83 C Kyle BUCKLEY (QLD) / Motocycle Accessory Shop / Doyle Media Services Yamaha YZF-R6 8 13:43.789 8.549 1:41.927 6
5 51 D Zach THACKERAY (NSW) / Active Cleaning / Kawasaki Connection / KCR Racing Kawazaki ZX6R 8 13:44.962 9.722 1:40.777 5
6 26 C Sean CONDON (NSW) / Swann Insurance / Bikebiz / Yamaha / Shark / Revit Yamaha YZF-R6 8 14:02.546 27.306 1:40.849 8
7 50 C Callum SPRIGGS (QLD) Yamaha YZF-R6 8 14:03.264 28.024 1:43.365 8
8 64 C Tim McGREGOR (NSW) Triumph Daytona 8 14:04.513 29.273 1:43.665 7
9 58 C Luke BURGESS (QLD) Kawasaki ZX6R 8 14:04.656 29.416 1:43.807 5
10 56 C Mark WILKINSON (VIC) / ROMPdesign / Plaza Autos / Pennzoil / Probolt Kawasaki ZX6R 8 14:07.901 32.661 1:44.398 2

3.3 seconds difference..
But the disclaimer on this is that superstock 600 is for C and D graders only... 1000cc prostock is all grades and has a couple of "factory" teams in there..