600cc vs 1000cc lap times

[Strika]

Sorry have been on the road for a few days so have been to busy to reply but it seems that most people below have proven my point anyways so i didnt see much reason to reply until Strika asked me to.
About time, I was waiting for you to dream up some more shit.... and boy, have you served me up a feast. I reckon you should cut your losses mate

Sooo yep my bad, typo I meant PI. However all my points are still relevant including times Yeah? I don't think the times vary enough to make that assumption. But you can think anyway you wish, regardless of factual accuracy

For starters you mentioned WSS intially not me and if they dont have over 150rwhp then I would truely like to know what power you do think they have. Look it up. Yep sure did, but never compared WSS to Oz SBK like you did

Also is Bayliss could only pilot his WSS bike at a 40's but could pilot his Ducati 996 only only a couple of years later at a 133.019 then how do you explain that????????? 7 seconds is alot of time difference considering all the time in corner speed he lost whilst riding his WSBK So here we have a case of you misquoting me. Bayliss' low 40 was on a domestic SS bike, not a WSS bike. Matter of fact it was the eaxact bike in my shed..... a 1995 ZX6R F1??? Comparing a domestic SS bike from 1995 to a WSBK from when??? 2002/3/4????? Not comparing Apples yet again Blurr.

All the guys above have stated that the difference in times around the island is substantial. I shouldnt need to continue with factless bullshit as the guys above have already proved that for me. . Prehaps you should look a few up before slamming others. The gaps between the 600's and 100's around a 500m shorter track such as EC is less than 1 second so taking in the difference of distance you would be inclined to think that EC would a corner speed track more than PI, but I digress.

Ya reckon?? I think they may think otherwise?? I doubt a couple of seconds is a large gap??? Here's the numbers again and from the way I read it, they are VERY close...... Almost double the capacity and only a few seconds difference says HP isn't the answer at PI??? Also, sorry you think I am slamnming you??? I am not. I would say it exactly like I have to your face. You know it, as do those who know me. It was said with a smile mate.... chill out FFS But, I disagree that other think otherwise based on the numbers below.

superbike 1.32.3
supersport 1.35.2

P.I. Lap records..

Superstock 1000 Ben Henry (WA) Suzuki GSXR 1000 1:36.325 5-Dec-10

Superstock 600 Michael Jones (Qld) Yamaha YZF-R6 1:38.354 26-Feb-11

No matter how you try and paint it Strika the fact that PI is a track that has soooo many points/corners that you are WOT on either bike ( including about 4 turns) it is hard to drag in a difference once a 1000cc is WOT, not matter what your corner speed is. On TODAYS technology there is not much the 600's can do that the 1000's cant. The difference in size and weight is minimal now so piloting a 1000 around now is much easier. Corner speed differences now are minimal also.
So, that being the case and having WOT a lot of the time, then why with an almost 70-80 hp advantage arent the litre bikes faster? If you are holding a litre bike at WOT for most of the lap at the Island, might I suggest you apply for the next seat on a factory Moto Gp bike as you are a freak. I can't hold WOT on most corners at the Island on a 600 with only 100hp, let alone a 180 hp litre bike which weighs around the same??

The bikes have moved along leaps and bounds since the ninety's No shit Sherlock. Ya reckon I havn't ridden a modern bike?? I guess a 2011 10 or R1 or blade is not modern?? Mate, despite your inference, I am not out of touch, after all, I did own an 05 636 which has lapped the Island in mid 40's with 014's on it!! But maybe that's ancient in your mind too???

So if the gap between the 600's and the 1000's is over 300-400% larger at PI than EC for track that is only 12.5% bigger I find it hard to comprehend how you think that is not a 1000cc dominant track. Nice twist of stats Blurr. What is the actual percentage difference? Not the 300-400% you quote. We are not comparing the gap difference from the creek to the Island, we are comparing lap times at the Island between a 600 and a litre bike???? Man you are clutching at straws.

I agree that corner speed at anytrack is paramount however at PI, corner speed is not going to save you against a well piloted 1000cc. Where at a tighter track like EC or WP or Broadford it may. No mate, you can keep diggin your hole as I am confident in my facts. Getting around the Island is more to do with corner speed than HP. Perhaps you don't remember Bayliss on a 5 year old Suzuki 250 Gp bike pulling a 5th at the island in a wildcard ride? The bike was eaten down the straight and made it all up in the turns. Also at a shorter track, a litre bike should have a higher advantage. It will accelerate faster off tighter turns than a 600.

Again not sure what you took from my original 1 line post or whether you were just in an argumentative mood but you may want to reconsider your original thoughts are they appear to most to be alittle out of whack with current FACTS. Once again, how do you call a two or three second difference to be indicative of it being a HP track, considering it is 96-98 seconds to lap the track that means the gap is around 2%...........2% isn't a large gap is it????? Why did I challenge you????? Because it was wrong... no other reason?? I wan't having a crack at you, just saying it was wrong..... so sorry if I have offended you, it wasn't the intention but I guess that i thought you were a stronger person than you are and would take it the way I meant it. Please forgive me, offending you wasn't the intention, having people know the facts was..


Ohh and I'll join the rest in seeing you do a 1.42 around PI once your fit and well again. Last time we spoke you mentioned a 1.45 was your best.

Once again Blurr, you are erroneously quoting me. My 42 was in 1996 and was stated as such. a 45 is the fastest I have been on the bike in recent years and I fully admitted it???????

Blurr go get yourself a larger shovel....... you need it

[Wattie]

Rear is easier to change definately. Im still stock gearing and its down a tooth in the front for the Creek and Island from now on. Those pesky litre bikes are good down the straights but the 600 holds its own

I dunno Rob, IME the front sprocket is a lot quicker to change on my 6/10 and far less effort than changing the rear unless there is a tyre change happening.

Front is harder but has more impact. Rear is easier.

For every tooth less on the front it is worth 2-3 extra teeth on the rear.

You will need to do the front down one anyways if is a tracky. It will give you a bit more bottom end.

Front is cheaper too. About $20 a sprocket compared to about $80 for a rear.

Your first sentence contradicts the 2nd sentence, essentially the same outcome right?
$80 for a rear, is that an alloy? I bought a steel +3 rear for less than $50


I put my original front sprocket back on and went +3 on the rear for PI. This shortens the wheelbase by a bit too.

Jonno, you want longer wheelbase, lees wheelies, more
Drive

[Blurr]

Don't think I have miss quoted you anywhere.

Also from where I am sitting I don't need the shovel. You jumped on the attack not me . I don't disagree with your corner speed theory on 600's , however I don't have the impression that corner speed will save you at PI against a bigger bike. Most people acknowledge the same and the facts tend to prove that horsepower is a big benefit at PI. You feel different, not sure why, but you still do.

[Jonno]

Jonno, you want longer wheelbase, lees wheelies, more
Drive

Fuk me now I am confussed

We need to talk

[Strika]

Don't think I have miss quoted you anywhere.

Also from where I am sitting I don't need the shovel. You jumped on the attack not me . I don't disagree with your corner speed theory on 600's , however I don't have the impression that corner speed will save you at PI against a bigger bike. Most people acknowledge the same and the facts tend to prove that horsepower is a big benefit at PI. You feel different, not sure why, but you still do.

Yeah you have misquoted me, I pointed it out in my previous post. But let's agree to disagree.

I don't consider calling what you wrote as bullshit being an attack. Blurr, you should know me well enough by now to know that what I wrote is what I would have said to your face with a smile, if you had said it on Monday while I was in the pits. It's a pity that you have construed this as an attack. it is simply clarifying facts, nothing more, nothing less!

Can you share with me the names of some of those who you say acknowledge the facts that prove that P.I. is a HP track??? While no rider/racer wants a HP deficit, those who have raced the Island will know, that it's more about the turns than the straights. As evidenced by the amount of bikes with less power that can have high terminal chute speed, due to the way they get out of 10/11 and 12.

The reason I feel different, is because Phillip Island is not a HP track, it's all about turn speed. It's not subjective, it's objective and the times posted in previous posts by others are testament to that. That is why I feel different! 2-3% difference between a 6 and a litre bike can only draw one conclusion and that is that HP is less of a necessity at the Island than corner speed is.

[StuMiller]

What if you compared an 07 ZX6 to an 07 ZX10 at Phillip Island, using the same rider and the same mods.......would make for a great discussion.....

[Wattie]

What if you compared an 07 ZX6 to an 07 ZX10 at Phillip Island, using the same rider and the same mods.......would make for a great discussion.....

That would be great, but who owns both?

A rider needs to know each bike the same.

Best comparison, is Kev curtain. He rides r6 in Superstock trim and also r1 in prostock trim. But doesn't do it at PI.

Check out fx times a Winton, Wakefield, and eastern creek.

Doesn't help the PI arguement...

[Wattie]

Although you could compare pat medcalf's PI times on the r1 to Kev curtain and Rick olsen on the r6's at PI last weekend. Those 3 are inseparable on the r1's at every fx round. And all 3 ride r6's good.

[tim]

What if you compared an 07 ZX6 to an 07 ZX10 at Phillip Island, using the same rider and the same mods.......would make for a great discussion.....

That would be great, but who owns both?

Glen

But one's in bits, and the other has a mint worth of suspension work.

He was instantly quicker on the 08 6 when he went onto it from his Crim, and when he got the gumby he really had to work at it to get back to the times on the 6.

[Wattie]

yeah blut glen was a bit scared of Gumby.

[tim]

understandable

[born green]

My two cents worth,
Corner speed is important at P/I, why? because u spend a long time on the side of the tyre, as most of them are long sweepers, so a good 600 is going to match or better some 1000's thu those parts of the track, simple.
then H/P for the rest of the track, but H/P wins out simply by laptimes.
Put a domestic a grader on a 600 then a 1000, and i would be putting my money on the 1000, but not by much.

[born green]

yeah blut glen was a bit scared of Gumby.

I can understand that, mine scares me to!!!!
It spent half of yesterday, doing that real well at broadford

[Wattie]

My two cents worth,
Corner speed is important at P/I, why? because u spend a long time on the side of the tyre, as most of them are long sweepers, so a good 600 is going to match or better some 1000's thu those parts of the track, simple.
then H/P for the rest of the track, but H/P wins out simply by laptimes.
Put a domestic a grader on a 600 then a 1000, and i would be putting my money on the 1000, but not by much.

how do you assume a 600 has better mid corner speed than a 1000 in the same circumstances?

does the weight and HP affect its ability to hold a speed while leant over?

i would think a 600 makes its time up by braking later (weight) and getting hard on the gas earlier without so much wheelspin (this is short lived of course once the 1000 gets traction.)

If its weight that makes it slower mid corner, then i must be insane, because my 100kg athletic build losses nothing to Kev Curtain etc MID corner, i loose out on corner exit.

600's are more flickable, but dont try and tell me PI is a track that needs a twitchy bike. Go to Wakefield, thats where a 600 almost has the match of a 1000.

[born green]

Cant tell u that from exp, as ive never ridin a 6 around P/I.
What ur saying is right i think, they seem to get off the turns a bit quicker, prob hold the throttle open longer, more drive offf the turn earlier? more speed to the next turn.
But they loose out on the faster parts of the island, which is a lot of the track allso.
Go back and have a look at say adam (krusty's) times when he won the 600 and the 1000 titles in the same year, and compare times, i recon there still around 3/4 sec'c difference