Ethical dilemma

[seraph]

I am having an ethical dilemma. One of my bestest friends has a thorough respect for bike safety, as he damn well should... He has a new lass that rides ... some sort of cruisery thing... who unfortunately does not wear a real helmet. I don't just mean an open face, though it is that... I think maybe it's 2 cm thick at the widest, with a thin layer of foam for comfort's sake under a thin plastic shell.

I refuse to ride with someone who will not wear safety gear appropriate to the ride, ie, I would not ride with someone wearing denim short shorts + no jacket on the twisties in case I did something unexpected, they braked in reaction, skid, smash, no skin... get the idea? My fault they were hurt, since I "caused" the hypothetical accident.

I keep getting asked to come on rides with him + new lass... what do I do? Do I keep my mouth shut + mind my own business? Do I forego the ride? Do I confront... someone? What would you do?

- Concerned in Brisbane.

[Colette]

Dear Concerned in Brisbane (lol),

You can't control what others do or don't do, so really the responsibility for her own safety is hers.

Maybe give your 2c worth in a casual chat, but I wouldn't refuse to ride with her because of that - I'd just voice my concerns and leave it with her.

[Smitty]

mate
damned if you ..and damned if you don't
they are the only two choices....
you either don't ride or you tell him how it is....

me???
I could not live with the circumstances for the rest of my days
knowing I had NOT done/said sumfing,
and us Aussies usually tell it how it is!
so I would say sumfing

you may have to take him and lass for a drink afterwards
but they should thank you.
her brains spread across Centenary hwy is not a pretty thought

my 2c

cheers

[kypez]

since he sounds like your mate, why not just buy his girl a helmet. DOnt need to spend a lot, but if your mate has a sense of decency, he'll pay you back.

I'd do that than rather have it on my conscience that I spent the money on a weekend out instead of buy her that helmet...

My 2 cents.

I got 5 helmets spare if you want one, too bad your in brissy...

[Ment]

You could tell her the story of the guy that came into the royal adelaide hospital after facplanting into a car at 60khms an hour. you could only recognise it as a face from the eyes up, the rest was just mangled flesh and the occasional tooth sticking out randomly.
When all the surgery was over they couldnt save much so he went home with a plastic prosthetic face.
He now can only drink his food thrugh a straw and never leaves his home.

This was all show (graphic photos included) to me by an ex who was freaked at the idea of me getting a bike again.

the most worring bit is that it happens alot. we just dont tend to hear about them.

[kypez]

You could tell her the story of the guy that came into the royal adelaide hospital after facplanting into a car at 60khms an hour. you could only recognise it as a face from the eyes up, the rest was just mangled flesh and the occasional tooth sticking out randomly.
When all the surgery was over they couldnt save much so he went home with a plastic prosthetic face.
He now can only drink his food thrugh a straw and never leaves his home.

This was all show (graphic photos included) to me by an ex who was freaked at the idea of me getting a bike again.

the most worring bit is that it happens alot. we just dont tend to hear about them.

Rotton.com had a few pics of guys coming unstuck with open face helmets. Pretty nasty stuff. Can send them to your friend who should get the idea by then...

[seraph]

She doesn't care. She fully admits she's too vain to wear an ugly full face helmet Man I look better with a full face on

She knows (not sure she understands, though) what can happen, just doesn't thnk it can happen commuting to work every morning which is all she does on the bike... it's a glorified chrome scooter.

So, buy her a helmet, eh? Even an Aus Standard open face would be better than what she has... I don't think she would wear it though. What should I do in that case? ie refusal to wear - this issue has been raised with her before.

-CIB.

[99coconuts]

You could tell her the story of the guy that came into the royal adelaide hospital after facplanting into a car at 60khms an hour. you could only recognise it as a face from the eyes up, the rest was just mangled flesh and the occasional tooth sticking out randomly.
When all the surgery was over they couldnt save much so he went home with a plastic prosthetic face.
He now can only drink his food thrugh a straw and never leaves his home.

This was all show (graphic photos included) to me by an ex who was freaked at the idea of me getting a bike again.

the most worring bit is that it happens alot. we just dont tend to hear about them.

Rotton.com had a few pics of guys coming unstuck with open face helmets. Pretty nasty stuff. Can send them to your friend who should get the idea by then...

yeah, and if that dont get the point across, i'd assume he doesn't really like said girlfriend all that much or maybe just casually drop some pics on the table in the middle of a game of poker with them both or something..... "oooh, would you look at that, how clumsy of me. well, while we're on the subject....."

just dont cook scrambled eggs for them that night, stick to light snacks like cheese and crackers



but seriously, its up to them in the end. DEFINATELY bring it up, she might be oblivious to the harsh realities. if she poo poos your warning/advice, then you've done what you can. some ppls are adament that your stuffed in a stack no matter what your wearing, so if they wont take advice, theres no point pushing them.

[kypez]

she can only refuse to wear the one you might buy her if she still has the option. Get the one she uses and throw it away next time you're over or next time you get your hands on it...

heck, if she's a good mate, I'd do it...

[seraph]

Kypez, can I do that? Would you throw it away? Is that ethical? Assuming I buy her a real helmet first? And do I go the whole way and get her a full face or do I get her an open face. I am convinced of the "buy-her-a-lid" option now, whether it's futile or not. I'll give it to my granny if Lass doesn't want it. She's not a good mate, YET (I seem to have trouble getting past her obvious idiocy, evidenced by the helmet issue) but my best mate is falling for her, and I'd do anything to keep him from being hurt.

Btw, coco, I was just listening to that track a minute ago and saw your signature - rar! -s.

[99coconuts]

theres a whole bunch of tool lovers here eh

should rename this place ksrwltc - kawasaki sportsbike riders what like tool club and i'd be guessing theres just as many bill hicks fans here? i just got a DVD of his stuff, god he's a legend



and saraph, i'd chat to her first. she couldn't posiibly have a problem with wearing a GOOD open face, so maybe preach that and show her some pics of how much like a cracked egg a skull can look when you hit something solid without a lid. it aint pretty, and you got a much better chance with a real helmut. but you cant force someone to wear what you want them to, it they think they dont need it, then theres a good chance they dont

[kypez]

Kypez, can I do that? Would you throw it away? Is that ethical? Assuming I buy her a real helmet first? And do I go the whole way and get her a full face or do I get her an open face. I am convinced of the "buy-her-a-lid" option now, whether it's futile or not.

Just saying what I'd do. I have spare helmets lying around from times I've taken girls on my bike and since everyone is different, I have sizes from small to XL. Friends borrow them whenever they take their girlfriends or mates on the bike. Couldnt live with myself if anything did happen.

Also, since this guy is your best friend, I think he'll come to the party.

But yeah, I wouldnt think twice and throw her one out, in a heartbeat if its as bad as what you describe it.

[RG]

I have mates who does that kind of cheapo helmet + shorts + sandals/tongs shit.

What I did:
1st step - Told them nicely a few times, and they refuse to listen.
2nd step - Inflict fear


It takes a while to educate ppl, be patient

[Glen]

Seraph

Good on you for caring enough to worry about this, youre obviously a good mate.

At the risk of offending everyone who would say it's the persons own choice, your mates girlfriend needs to have the potential consequences pointed out to her in graphic detail. While the potential damage to herself is significant she should think about what a brain injury to her does to everyone around her ie who is going to care for her if a tragedy occurs and what is she doing to their life in that event.

You could take that point to an extreme and say that if that concerns you then you wouldn't ride a bike in the first place but as a rider you owe it to yourself, the medical system, the taxpayer, your friends and family to do whatever you can to protect yourself in an accident.

There is a documentary which I saw at instructor school on this very topic only it covered a helmetless Harley rider in the US who wound up brain injured. It pretty well destroyed his family financially and in many other ways.

I'll shut up now....

[Ment]

theres a whole bunch of tool lovers here eh

should rename this place ksrwltc - kawasaki sportsbike riders what like tool club and i'd be guessing theres just as many bill hicks fans here? i just got a DVD of his stuff, god he's a legend

"..back and to the left..."


If she is that vain mabe point out that all it would take is for a car ahead to spit up a rock aand there goes her eye or even just a big nasty scar.