Riding old dungers ........fast!

[Strika]

Gos just made a comment about watching a dude go peg to peg on an old Z1300 years ago. It got me thinking, as to how we all used to ride the wheels off our old dungers so often back then.

They didn't have very much in the way of suspension,.......or brakes. They steered really weirdly more often than not, and really didn't have much in the way of power, but yet, we used to ride them not much slower I reckon than I do my newer stuff.

By way of comparison, I can remember belting an old GPX750 around Winton years ago. It pogoed in every turn, the brakes turned to shit after two laps, the tyres were a real hit and miss affair ie-aim to hit the apex, but miss it by a mile!!!! Ground clearance was more of a problem than front end grip, although even with only 75-80hp the old GPX could still muster enough power to have the Dunlop K701's on the rear spinning madly onto the main straight!

But we would ride the feckin things until they were bucking and kicking and wobbling all over the place. The frames would flex, as would the forks and swingarm. It was a fairly wobbly old piece of kit to go fast on. But go fast we did.

Maybe I am just getting older, or maybe it's the speeds at which modern bikes start to get wobbly like that, But I am finding less and less opportunities on the road to get anywhere near making my 9 start to get wiggly! And even on the track once they start getting like that I start toning things down to a more managable level!

So what do some of you more............errr............ experienced motorcyclists reckon??? Do you think that we really did ride the old stuff harder, or is it just that the new stuff is SO good, that you have to be mental to get it wobbly??????

[bonester]

I tend to ride my old GT pretty hard. It's all deceiving though coz while it might feel fast, in reality it isn't. Kinda fun to wobble through the corners. Not a big outlay if I stack it either. ZZR is a different story though. Big $$$$$ in a stack with it.

[FrogZ]

I can remember using the frame flex of my old Bol Dor to advantage around corners, it wasnt a concious thing. It was only when I went to sell it I found the small bolts in the front down tubes that made it worse then they already were..
I made a comment once before about how ppl who haven ridden dungers tend to appreciate and fiddle with the suspension of their modern bikes more than those that haven't had to ride old stuff.

[Gosling1]

back when we were young tackers, I think also we had less fear of death !! you know, 10foot tall and bulletproof......this sure helped when riding the 'old dungers', in fact if your bike *wasn't* wobbling its arse off through corners, well, what sort of nancy-pants were you ?? - and back then, well *track* days etc, just didn't exist, so the only place to learn to go hard was out on the highways and byways..

newer stuff is just *so* much better-suspended and braked, that to get these babies wobbly, well you would need to be pushing it pretty hard on the road ......(track is a different kettle of fish altogether, and a luxury we didn't have back then ..)

so in the end, your comment that

...the new stuff is SO good, that you have to be mental to get it wobbly??????

rings very true.

That, and the fact that these days all us *old* chargers are in fact, closer to death in reality , gives you a sense of vulnerability when hammering on these days ( well, it might be a fleeting thought at least )

[Smitty]

Gos just made a comment about watching a dude go peg to peg on an old Z1300 years ago. It got me thinking, as to how we all used to ride the wheels off our old dungers so often back then.

They didn't have very much in the way of suspension,.......or brakes. They steered really weirdly more often than not, and really didn't have much in the way of power, but yet, we used to ride them not much slower I reckon than I do my newer stuff.

By way of comparison, I can remember belting an old GPX750 around Winton years ago. It pogoed in every turn, the brakes turned to shit after two laps, the tyres were a real hit and miss affair ie-aim to hit the apex, but miss it by a mile!!!! Ground clearance was more of a problem than front end grip, although even with only 75-80hp the old GPX could still muster enough power to have the Dunlop K701's on the rear spinning madly onto the main straight!

But we would ride the feckin things until they were bucking and kicking and wobbling all over the place. The frames would flex, as would the forks and swingarm. It was a fairly wobbly old piece of kit to go fast on. But go fast we did.


So what do some of you more............errr............ experienced motorcyclists reckon??? Do you think that we really did ride the old stuff harder, or is it just that the new stuff is SO good, that you have to be mental to get it wobbly??????

wow..cupla things here

firstly...we didn't know the difference with real old dungers
and tended to get thrown off..me thinking of my old MachIII
and GPz7fiddy
besides they had no grip (skinny crossplies) and no brakes
drums..or one piston 1 rotor discs
plus add in pushbikes frames and they were a bit of a handful

we DID ride 'em hard but we never got into trouble like you
can with a 9 or 10r or 12 if you give it to it
and have no idea what you are doing..you will end up adding to
the roadtoll if you do.

todays Sportsbikes are mental...thou Gixxers and Blades and 10rs
are quicker on racetracks than some old GP racers


I have to say your GeePeeX7fiddy must have been a dog
I had no trouble with brakes on mine
(mind you...spent lots making 'em work right but)
200-> 60 at Honda at PI was a doddle
240 down to 170ish for Turn1...no problem
and
only 75hp..??? geezus mine made 105rwhp on a dyno
with zorst and cam and timing degree'd in
so yeah , my 140 section Bridgie looked like shit after 5 laps
however
the frame flex on it was no different to the H1 or GPz7fiddy
..guess I was used to it
I was happy with a 1:55 round the Island


the young bucks jumping on a near new Zx6
have no idea..no idea at all


cheers

[javaman]

Yeah been riding the zx6 nearly two years now and have never had so-called headshakes, wobble, flex whatever ... the only problem I think is the pilot getting overconfident and binned it ... I would have no reason to upgrade but styling and color

Does that mean older bikes are more fun? I know some ppl. downgrading to 400cc just to beat the bigger bikes on the road?? What are these 400cc ?

Wouldn't mind trading down actually. Had no fun anymore on the 600 unless 130+ What about mortards ?

[FrogZ]

Hahaha all SO true... and when you f*cked up back then it was more liable to be under 200 than over it...
But crikey, no leathers, those old Bell buckets, and I forgot the tyres, and I used to buy for how long they lasted back then too
A Kenda World Tour once (oh the shame !!!)
Wheelstands were for 1st gear and humps, and could you imagine doing a stoppie on a K1 or a old 9
I going to have another Turkey and laugh a bit more, this is fun...
Imagine what knee down would have done to my Lee Coopers
Oh and Rossi BOOTS, no wonder hes such a legend know eh ???

[Gosling1]

... and I forgot the tyres, and I used to buy for how long they lasted back then too ...

WHAT ????

How could you forget the *legendary* Pirelli Phantoms ??? (Silver Dot of course... )

these things actually *gripped*, and if you could squeeze 5000k out of them , well you were either a poof, or a tightarse ( Cool, my first posted oxymoron )

I remember getting 3000k from 1 set, and this was *literally* one months riding (we did lots of coast trips in those days, and the road down the Clyde was *fully* shithouse )

this was on the old Z1000 (the fuellie) - it doesn't chew tyres now like it used to ...

[rocketrod]

I think the thing was with the old bikes is they let you know when they were at the limit,either tyres or the old kawasaki hinge in the middle frame flex. The new bikes and tyres are that dam good that there is basically not alot of warning when these things are ready to bail out,and i think the capabities of most modern sports bikes and tyres are prolly beyond the riding talent of most riders.Alot of riders i hear blaming their suspension or their tyres are not right or whatever,but in reality i think its the rider that isnt up to the task in alot of situations.
Having said all this,i still punt around on my old transalp,87 model, and yeah it doesnt go fast and it has the frame flex once you get over about 130 kays into a corner and shit brakes,but god dam,its still a bloody fun thing to ride.I dont think you have to have the latest and greatest to enjoy riding a bike.
Some guys think buying the best and fastest sports bike is gunna make them faster,but in reality they should be honing in on their riding skills.

[Buck]

Thankyou for acknledging my youth Smitty Young Bucks are here.I had the same thoughts on the weekend Marty, as I joined Ponti and all
around some old Moto Guzzi club haunts south of Brizvegas.
bikes are easier to ride fast now but this might also put people in trouble ealier in their bikelife as its only the bikes that have progressed the riders are just as ballsy n ignorent as you all were. Also your sorta chasing your tail coz as the bikes get better they get faster so it sorta relative.
I recon older bikes are more fun but fun can be a pain sometimes like turning up to the third corner in a row and wondering if the brakes have cooked.

Anyway Ill leave you old dudes to it.
Steve

[Smitty]

Thankyou for acknledging my youth Smitty Young Bucks are here.I had the same thoughts on the weekend

no worries Steve....

now really going back...
waxed cotton riding wear
dripped on ya when hot and you get VERY wet when it rained

carn..who had some???

[Gosling1]

...now really going back...waxed cotton riding wear
dripped on ya when hot and you get VERY wet when it rained....

GOD I hated Belstaff's !!! they were made by wankers for wankers (apologies to those who used to wear them )

mainly old wankers on BMW's, who rode around like they had a peg up their arse, frowning at the young whippersnappers on the big Kwakka's, getting all crossed up and out of shape on the way to some pissup (woops I meant a Rally ) - god, those were the days..........

.... downgrading to 400cc just to beat the bigger bikes on the road?? What are these 400cc ?

they are really quite fast for what they are. At Wakefield Park late last year, I helped pit-crew a team in an Endurance race, one member was on an RVF400 ( NC30?), and basically lapped the entire field , including New Era bikes ZXR750's, FZR750's, and an FZR with a FZR1000 motor fitted..... - He basically rode around the outside of *everything*, made them look absolutely stupid, and set up the team for a win !! It was unreal to watch. Don't underate 400's, they can be a weapon in the right hands...

[Rossi]

Eeeeeeeeee when I were a lad

Back in ole blighty in the winter, Belstaffs were the go, so long as they were regularily re-waxed (left grubby marks all over the parents walls & the pub)...... towel knicked from off the cooker door (still warm) wrapped round the neck to keep the drips from the AGV helmet from sending icy trickles down ya neck to the crack of ya arse Getting off the bike 30 minutes later to hear the ice cracking of the front of your jeans.
Bread bags over your socks to keep your feet dry before you put the boots on ( Doc Martens were de rigeur).
Changing spark plugs after you'd warmed the bike up and to grease the chain was an all day bike off the road job, clean with parafin then warm up the slab of grease in the old lady's roasting pan and drop the chain in for an hours worth of simmering ( hoping she wouldn't get back home before you'd time to clean it out !).......phttttt kids
Don't know they're bleedin born

[Nanna10r]

Now I'm no where near as old as the blokes up above

But i reckon it's much easier to ride the new bikes, the 9 for example steers better on one wheel then any of My gsx's from 1980 - 85 did on 2. they wouldn't hold a line scrapin the frame sliding down the road at 90ks.
You also spent so much time keeping them wound up that heaven forbid you did need to stop it was too late.... splat. Tyres omg what shit they were. I had the latest & greatest Dunlop elites in 1984 on my single seat MVX250(rg/rz beater), the rear lasted about 15 thou & add two more wheels if you used them in the rain. Perilliess fuggen things. wouldn't even put them around the flowers under my letterbox now days.

I was watching the Swan series from 1984 the other night & Will Hagon was carrying on about how "ORSUM" Gardner's NSR500 Gp bike was ..it had a mind numbing 130 odd bhp at the wheel

The problem with the new kit is that Sh!t comes rushing at you like your in the Tardis. Which can on occasion find the organic component malfunctioning Miserably.

As for Safety equipment, I couldn't afford anything as Glamourous as boots (3weeks pay) & leathers were Racer only from what i could see.
No idea how anyone in a crap climate rode a bike in winter ... phwoarr.

Anyone with doubts, come ride my pos 91 Fzr Steel frame 110/17, 150/18, dives like an italian soccerplayer under brakes & wouldn't pull a boy scout of your Nana in a straight line. And it was a World beater 15 years ago.

I wouldn't be dead for Quids thank Fugg I've been riding like a Nana all my life. Damn i lov th' 9

[Strika]

[

I have to say your GeePeeX7fiddy must have been a dog
I had no trouble with brakes on mine
(mind you...spent lots making 'em work right but)
200-> 60 at Honda at PI was a doddle
240 down to 170ish for Turn1...no problem
and
only 75hp..??? geezus mine made 105rwhp on a dyno
with zorst and cam and timing degree'd inso yeah , my 140 section Bridgie looked like shit after 5 laps
however
the frame flex on it was no different to the H1 or GPz7fiddy
..guess I was used to it
I was happy with a 1:55 round the Island


the young bucks jumping on a near new Zx6
have no idea..no idea at all


cheers

Brakes went cause I rode it...hard!!!

If you had 105 at the wheel (real and not some bulshit optimistic make you feel great dyno) I'll bare my arse in bourke st. GPX's in the best state of tune were good for 80! A set of cams and an zorst. Maybe 84. Other than that you have your (your dyno man's) hand on it!!!