ATTN: Uni students...

[stevew_zzr]

Given that I study about 30-40 hours per week and i'm only part-time (add another 15 per week over the last two weeks to prep for exams), and i clock about 25 hours on the weekend of kitchen hand work, I pay about $2000 in tax and another $3000 in HECS (at least) I end up giving the government about $5000 per year and get to keep in my hand, what .... $19,000ish ?

How much tax does a $30k per year 37.5 hours week worker pay ? Maybe $4500.... ?

I do know of some lazy students, for sure, but to say that HECS/HELP is justified because of them is ridiculous. There are heaps of students (around about half for those in the same field as me from my experience) who work damn hard and are quite justified in feeling that they are sacrificing ALOT AND having to pay for it too.

(edited for clarity )

[Gosling1]

all education has to be payed for by someone,even apprenticeships.and not by the tax payer.i actualy agree with hecs especially when there are the number of so called students who only do it to avoid GETTING a JOB

YOu are wrong (edited for mod approval)

Its only * a number* of students referred to here, not *every* student. Every tertiary institution has a handful of *career* students whose only interest in life is remaining in the tertiary education system for as long as humanly possible. We had at least a dozen of these at CCAE when I attended as a student back in the early 80's......they exist at every Uni.

....Yes, because it's not like doctors, research scientists, engineers and computer programmers don't put anything back into society over the course of their working lives.

And at the start of their working lives, they can put their HECS debt back into society. Anybody in the roles you have described (with the obvious exception being computer programmers *by and large* ) will be earning salaries between 100k and 200k and in a lot of cases far more.

These educated members of society can repay their HECS debt, its not like they can't afford to, is it ?? Shit, for some doctors their entire HECS debt is represented by the the cost of their eldest kids first BMW !!The only reason they get paid such phat salaries is because of their Uni education in the first place.....I don't envy the study required to achieve a Masters Degree in Whatever, I just don't agree that the taxpayer should fund this.

A lot of taxpayers are blue-collar, farmers, etc, no ability to even contemplate study in order to achieve a higher salary.......why should they foot the bill ?

[javaman]

Very interesting discussions. I have always thought I can relax about my kid's education ... I guess not and I can throw that zx10r dream away now

$30k debt for a freshgraduate is a joke. My electronics engineering degree (6yrs) cost me around $1500 using today's exchange rate and if using the pre-asian crisis rate that would be even alot less. And I bet I can solder as good as anyone here too . Wonder if I should send them back for uni or germany ... i heard it's still free there.

The overseas student.. I knew they were rich but if they had paid more than $100k for a degree here (+living costs!) and then came back home I really doubt they can get a job enough paid to cover that 'expense' . It's good to have a wealthy dad...

[stevew_zzr]

Its only * a number* of students referred to here, not *every* student. Every tertiary institution has a handful of *career* students whose only interest in life is remaining in the tertiary education system for as long as humanly possible. We had at least a dozen of these at CCAE when I attended as a student back in the early 80's......they exist at every Uni.

....Yes, because it's not like doctors, research scientists, engineers and computer programmers don't put anything back into society over the course of their working lives.

And at the start of their working lives, they can put their HECS debt back into society. Anybody in the roles you have described (with the obvious exception being computer programmers *by and large* ) will be earning salaries between 100k and 200k and in a lot of cases far more.

These educated members of society can repay their HECS debt, its not like they can't afford to, is it ?? Shit, for some doctors their entire HECS debt is represented by the the cost of their eldest kids first BMW !!The only reason they get paid such phat salaries is because of their Uni education in the first place.....I don't envy the study required to achieve a Masters Degree in Whatever, I just don't agree that the taxpayer should fund this.

A lot of taxpayers are blue-collar, farmers, etc, no ability to even contemplate study in order to achieve a higher salary.......why should they foot the bill ?

That's just odd. The government has a way better perspective on the issue and I think they are a bit off as well. A 'bill' is completely the wrong term to use here, the government and most people who have spent some time developing an objective measured perspective on the issue agree that education - at ANY level - is an investment for the betterment of the *whole* country and is not just some isolated enclosed activity that results in only the profit of an individual.

For those 'career' students, you have to realise eventually they either become post-grad or have to put something back into the university. Sure you can't always expect everyone to contribute equally but to just focus on, perhaps, 1% of university undergraduates to make some broad statement about whether or not HECS/HELP is a fundamentally positive concept is ... well ... you know .... stupid.

There is no real white-vs-blue collar 'war' going on here and I think that it's becoming increasingly obvious that there is a symbiotism between the two in our system. Ever heard of the current 'skills shortage'?

My own personal opinion, and it's subject to change as I'm NOT the most informed person around is that ideally University would be much harder to qualify for, and much cheaper. Alot of University bachelor degrees should be dropped back down to TAFE diploma level, and the higher level TAFE (diplomas) should be pumped up to cover those previously 'academic' fields that are more at a trade level now.

[stevew_zzr]

The overseas student.. I knew they were rich but if they had paid more than $100k for a degree here (+living costs!) and then came back home I really doubt they can get a job enough paid to cover that 'expense' . It's good to have a wealthy dad...

You'd be surprised, I don't think there would be so many of them if it were the case that they couldn't go back to re-earn the money that they spent. No doubt they have rich parents though

[Neka79]

yea the deal she got is deception- which is why its crap....

she was told by her parents that her education was a gift from them (they can afford it EASILY)...she was told it was all being paid for by them....
she does work for her dad's business (building/updating website etc) and doesnt charge him cos he was paying this...

hes now not paying her for work she does for him, shes just found out shes gunna have abt $18k debt (not 30 like previously thought) AND he doesnt help her with living costs like he was going to.... i told her to tell him to piss off, but she wants to keep things "nice"...





in case u havent figured out its my gf who is going thru all this, hence why im a bit pissed off (he was gunna pay to put her thru all this cos they live 800km away- now she is apparently my responsibility because we are going out)

[Cath]

I understand why you're so pissed off, mate. I'd be murderous if someone treated my partner like shit. And they have treated her like shit, though she'll probably minimise it, so it doesn't hurt as much. The fact remains; what her parents have done to her isn't exactly brimming with love and respect. You help those you love, not lie to them, cheat them and screw with their future.

Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to bite your tongue, my friend. She's decided she'd rather "keep things nice". That's her choice to make. Sucks for you, because I bet you just wanna punch someone and fix things so she isn't being treated like that anymore. Just love her, Neka - if she gets plenty of respect and love from you, she'll start to compare it to what she's getting from them, and maybe slowly come to the conclusion that she was dealt a shitty hand in the parent-stakes.

[stevew_zzr]

in case u havent figured out its my gf who is going thru all this, hence why im a bit pissed off (he was gunna pay to put her thru all this cos they live 800km away- now she is apparently my responsibility because we are going out)

Send 'em a quote for all the webpage guru work ... at the average industry rate of some ridiculous amount per hour (say ... $100) should cover the degree no worries