Electrical problem

[Tack]

I have a really weird electrical problem that I'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light upon.

To start off I rewired the entire bike...I removed everything that you don't need for a track bike...lights horn blinkers side stand etc.

I rewired it and started it and it run perfect....revs great.....no problem...I'm real happy!

I covered all the wiring again and tried restarting it....thing turns over but no start...check for fuel...yep...fuel in the carby bowls...fuel in tabk...fuel in filter....go to the electricals.....pull a lead...put a allan key the same size as the plug top...turn it over...yep spark jumps???

I check for power to everything...yep...all good...recheck spark...pull plug out....earth it...no spark....??? check everything...power is at coils....power is at all appropriate points on ignitor..power is at pump.....put allen key back in...spark jumps to earth???...put plug in...no spark??take all spark plugs out...earth them....no spark???...recheck everything again....get a huge spark across spark plug.....ok...put spark plugs back in......no start???


pull spark plugs out...recheck....no spark??

I just don't get this....I would understand if I checked everything and found no power at an appropriate point or...if I got no spark at all...but to get a spark sometimes and not others especially if spark plugs are in??...got me beat...I dunno..any ideas?

[Steve_TLS]

How good are the plugs? Not fouled are they and the voltage is travelling a different path instead of across the gap?

[Steve_TLS]

Just saw your other thread looking for plugs on a Sunday. Did you find any and try them?

[Gosling1]

...I covered all the wiring again and tried restarting it....

this is where you should start checking again - its my bet that in the process of 'covering' ( do you mean wrapping some leckie tape over the whole loom ?) - you may have dislodged and/or caused a loose join uin the loom somewhere........

Before you start any back-tracking, get some new plugs .......

Good Luck

[mike-s]

Dislodged, or heck, a solder joint may be sticking thru the lekky tape and hitting something like the underside of the tank?

hey its happened before.

[Tack]

thanks for the replies.

No steve...didn't find anyone open...so haven't tried them...but I expect that they would definately have helped (less resistence)

I talked to the motorcycle place today where the bike is going to be tuned etc and he said that most likely there isn't enough voltage in the battery to turn the starter and also give enough voltage to the coil to get a decent spark across the plugs.

I thought it was a reasonable explaination as I could get a spark across an allen key to earth but because the spark plug would have a greater resistance then I guess no spark.

I've charged the battery all day so I'll go have ago in a little while and see what happens.

I thought it was interesting because he reckons that you gotta have at least 12.8 volts to turn over a starter and have enough voltage to start a bike. Even if it turns out that's not my problem could be useful information for anyone here.

[Tack]

well that didn't work...lol...made no difference...still no spark dispite 13.58 volts.

[Gosling1]

check your kill switch wiring.....and also the positive feed into the coils.....

[Tack]

Thats the problem Gosling...checked that i have power everywhere...I have power from the kill switch...to the ignitor...to the pickup coil (pickup coil (thats what Kawasaki call it) has 9 volts going to it btw...it has a resistor in the ignition switch)...it has power to the coils themselves...it has power from the starter button to the starter solinoid which goes to the ignitor also and fuel pump relay..etc

I even checked the resistence of the earths back to the battery!


The thing turns over etc...it even has a spark which jumps from an allen key but a weak spark one thats not obviously big enough to jump a plug....it even registers a rev on the tacho when it's kicking over.....which I would think suggests that it's doing everything it should from the coil pick up to the ignitor etc...so problem must be either coils or leads or plugs...I guess.

[BladeBoy]

Tack,
Have you tested the spark with a spark plug on the end of the lead? with it earthed out to the bike chassis?, are they all the same?, if the plugs are weak or not enough current being produced the compression of the engine will snuff out the spark, just a thought.

[Gosling1]

mmm, this is an interesting one.......

Mark is dead right, even with a 'spark' across a plug that is earthed against the fins, or the motor block, it is possible that the spark will be 'snuffed out' when fitted. What you are looking for across *any* plug when doing a spark test is a Big, Fat, Blue spark, not a pissweak little 'flash'.......

Ignitor coils ( or 'pickup' coils) can often be the source of intermittent gremlins with spark........I have had this happen a few times on later-model CDI zeds........they run on 2 cyl, you tap the ignitor coil with a screwdriver and *bang* its running on 4........for a minute......then back to 2..... Only thing to do in this case is replace ignitor coils.

Plug caps aren't too expensive to change, try some new ones, and then move to the leads. Coils are exxy, so leave them till last, but with everything checking out as you have stated, then you may be up for some new coils ?? If you have the manual, you *should* be able to test for open circuit of the coils before replacement, and also the correct resistance for both primary winding and secondary winding. Its a lot of buggerising about, but worth it to either fully discount the coils as the source of your problems..........or confirm they are shagged, and raid the Mastercard for replacements....

Good luck mate.

[Tack]

thanks for the help guys....I've taken it down to a bike place anyway and see what he can find......I keep checking things over and over...so now I'm sick of it...lol

the plug/s was earthed...even ran an earth from the battery to the plug...have checked the resistence between the engine and the battery etc...it was fine....

[Steve_TLS]

New plugs, did you try any?

[Tack]

No Steve, I didn't get a chance to buy any due to work so bike went down with instructions to replace plugs and leads anyway...hopefully it will go.

[Gosling1]

....it really could be just a dud set of plugs.......

If they are the resistor-type plugs, my experience with these style is that once they are fouled, thats it, game over. Bin them and start again......