Chinese Bikes

[KEL10R]

From the British MCN website:
An Italian-designed 250 expected to cost around £2000 has been unveiled as a concept at the Chinese motorcycle show.

The single-cylinder Kawasaki Z-esque KP250 could go into production within months. If manufacturer Lifan can bring it to the UK for close to its anticipated price in China, it will be one of the cheapest motorcycles you can buy.

But with just 19bhp on tap, there's a trade-off in performance.

Italian designer Nico Butti said it was ready to go into production in China within months for just over £2000, but the air-cooled engine may need to be altered to meet European emission standards.

He said: "If anything it's inspired by Kawasaki. The brief was to make something with European appeal but at the same time accessible for the Chinese."


So,
are the Chinese now like the Japanese were in the 60's,and in 10yrs time we will be drooling over the latest Lifan or Zongshen or will their bikes always be Shite?

[webcase]

From the British MCN website:


So,
are the Chinese now like the Japanese were in the 60's,and in 10yrs time we will be drooling over the latest Lifan or Zongshen or will their bikes always be Shite?

A recent review in MCN Aus of a naked 650 CFMOTO(?) got a good write up.More in the buy it if your hard up for cash and just want something to get out there on and be half confident its not going to fall to bits kind of way.Great!
I don't know the history of the way Japan worked engineering and R and D wise post WW2 to rise to the highs they have had but it seems pretty obvious from everything that comes from China and i mean everything it has been ripped from someone elses design.They don't seem real flash on original stuff.So at the moment i don't see anything from there appreciating.

[bonester]

Engine bits are OK. I've rebuilt 3 of my GN250s using Chinese rebuild kits- barrells, pistons gaskets etc for $60. Done nearly 10000km on one of them and still going strong. Other areas on Chinese bikes leave a lot to be desired though.

[born green]

Engine bits are OK. I've rebuilt 3 of my GN250s using Chinese rebuild kits- barrells, pistons gaskets etc for $60. Done nearly 10000km on one of them and still going strong. Other areas on Chinese bikes leave a lot to be desired though.

All jokes aside... they said the same about the japs back in the day when they copied the poms... now where are the japs.......... were on a kawasaki forum??? and where are the poms now??? execpt for trumpy......... but i will still buy eleswhere till proven otherwise

[oldman]

I don't know the history of the way Japan worked engineering and R and D wise post WW2 to rise to the highs they have had but it seems pretty obvious from everything that comes from China and i mean everything it has been ripped from someone elses design.They don't seem real flash on original stuff.So at the moment i don't see anything from there appreciating.

Following WWII, U.S. General Douglas MacArther was put in charge of helping Japan rebuild it's infrustructer. He brought in a man, Dr. William Edwards Deming, who was an efficiency expert that, (to put it simply) explained to the Japanese that building something right the first time is less expensive than building crap and having to recall and repair it. His ideas seemed to stick as Japanese products are the best in the world. Whether China can get there head out and do the same thing remains to be seen. We as consumers are to blame as we buy their shit and it breaks and we buy more of their shit because it's cheap and we are lazy and stupid. The only thing we make better than the Japanese is booze, maybe thats why we're stupid and lazy????

[KEL10R]

Also after WW2 the Japs got brand new state of the art factories, and being banned by the US from building aircraft a lot of the engineers went into motorcycles (info from amcn article on the motogp yamaha M1 designer) whereas the poms were still using the old factories previous to the war which had been used during the war for military manufacturing, so they were behind the ball to start and they didn't take the Japs seriously.
Looks to me like the Chinese have the cheap labour to copy and mass produce bikes and undercut established brands, although it seems to be the Europeans that innovate and the asians copy and mass produce it cheaper.

[Naked Twin]

There are some major differences between China and Japan. Japan had a very different culture of pride in nation. Kamikaze came from the willingness to put nation before individual. They also had been ripped apart from years of war and were on the brink of collapse prior to the dropping of the bomb. They were rebuilt by America with a clear view to reinvent the country from its previous imperial ways and were successful. The same pride built bikes, technology almost in a we did this to prove it to you. China on the other hand is a mixed country without rules (certainly not international rules) and is dollar hungry. There is much inconsistency in their product though capability is their they aren't concerned about rules.

In my industry (Formwork and Scaffolding) the copy everything and sometimes to perfection but they don't engineer it or prove it and aren't concerned about paying an engineer to sign off and approve it. They have the ability problem is they lack the consistent quality. Apple manufacture there, however they do their own quality control and that is the difference. If left to their own devices China says close enough is good enough. I see it in the copied products, occasional weld missed, slightly different steel etc.

We have already seen it with Cherry and Great Wall, quality wasn't there nor conformance to local rules (some Cherry cars has asbestos parts) however they were able to change the manufacturing process overnight to improve this.

Will this happen across the range? That is the big question and the problem is if they don't all lift their game they will drag them all down. Current Japanese vehicle manufacturers are all pulling the same quality, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Subuaru, Toyota etc, their mates down at Korea are trying to do the same.