Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

HEADS UP - ALERT FOR ACTION
CIRCULATE this WIDELY

Cashless tolling on the Cross City Tunnel may result in a protest ride when
it opens.

A "Show of Strength" to induce good Television coverage of tolling issues.

To be discussed at next MCC meeting, June 6

Meeting with Minister for Roads this week.

Await outcomes before going crazy, but the outcomes may make us go crazy.

Please digest the following points and communicate them to your members.
Stay Tuned - more in one week.
Failure in transport planning has brought us to this.


* Motorcycles were not considered in traffic plans and have been
forgotten in government negotiations for privately run toll roads.

* This is why motorcycles have been tolled as cars since the 1986
agreement for the Harbour Tunnel pushed up ALL tolls. We just got lost in
the shouting about higher tolls.

* Now we can correct some of the failures to make provisions for
motorcycles.

* Some organisations will resist change, but the facts are very clear,
motorcyclists have been marginalised for years.

* NSW Government holds the contracts for toll roads - it is a policy
issue and hence a voters issue.

Toll rates for motorcycles are too high.

* A family sedan is no more a heavy truck than a motorcycle is a
family sedan.

* Differential toll rates exist between cars and trucks, but not
between cars and motorcycles in NSW.

* One-Quarter of the car rate is the fair and reasonable toll rate for
motorcycles.

* This rational figure is based upon road wear, space occupancy,
congestion and clean air considerations.

* Prescribed toll schedules fail to list motorcycles.

* Motorcycles are an afterthought.

Motorcyclists are happy to pay a toll.

* As long as the toll rate is reasonable AND that we are not charged
extra administrative fees.

E-tags don't work for most motorcycles

* The supplied E-tags are not fit for the purpose sold.

* Check out the 'Terms and Conditions' for the use of E-tags, no
mention of how to use them on motorcycles

* Advertising of E-tags to riders is misleading and fails to disclose
problems

* E-tag is not weatherproof, is affected by vibration and heat

* If it fails due to weather damage, it costs you

* Dangerous to carry upon ones person due to shattering to shards on
impact,

* Cannot be mounted to most motorcycles and hence can't be aimed
correctly at the antenna

* Fails to read due to inability to aim it correctly, hence further
administration costs charged to you

* Riders try to use them, but are forced into unsafe practices, such
as:-


* riding one-handed through the toll plaza, waving the tag until it
changes the taffic light colour

* placing it in a jacket pocket (the casing shatters into shards on
impact and can easily penetrate the body)-

* Using an armband pouch - this places the rider at risk due to
windage rotating the pouch and having it interfere with arm movement and
hence control of the motorcycle - worst on sportsbikes. Too tight causes
numbness. It also defeats the purpose of protective gear, providing a point
impact on the upper arm. These are dangerous

* The MCC of NSW has worked with the RTA and E-tag suppliers and
industrial designers to assist solving the problem

* No suitable E-tag exists anywhere in the world.


Alternative proposals for cashless tolling demand additional fees for not
using an E-tag

* Toll road operators are demanding riders pay for failure to use an
unsuitable E-tag

* The toll road operator expects riders to pay $1.60 per trip for
administration, in addition to the toll

* This is gouging

* It is misuse of market power. The E-tag is not fit for purpose.

* Photographic methods are enforcement tools being used
inappropriately.

* Use of photographic enforcement tools means we don't pay a toll, but
buy an indemnity against prosecution.

* This is back to front as NO MEANS OF PAYING is provided



Any protest will be a display of strength of numbers, NOT to inconvenience
other drivers, particularly emergency or commercial traffic.
What can a protest achieve?
Publicity and public outcry to publicise the issues.
About what?
The toll rate needs fixing to a fair and reasonable level.
Despite all other problems with accounts and tolls, this issue is PRIME.
It stems from failure of public policy to include motorcycles in transport
planning
The failure to provide a suitable tolling method follows on from this.

Secondary are the issues about goods not fit for purpose, no suitable
electronic tolling method for motorcycles, additional fees for inability to
comply - so why the hell should we have to pay for this failure? There is a
good base of commercial law for those issues, but toll rate remains first
issue.

if im not working on the day of such a protest, consider me in. .

Count me in - I keep dropping the coins stored in the velcro in my glove - and having to unglove, unzip and fork over $$ is a pain. I'm not going to stick an eTag on my helmet!

Given that we live in Toll city this has got to be worthwhile having a crack at.

Good stuff guys; Ask any questions to Motorcycle Council of NSW directly, I'm just the messenger

I'll post any updates though.

blimey
and I thought us Vic riders will have it bad....

why don't you lot (NSW riders) all get together
and go thru the booths one day and pay cash.....
by stopping and getting off ya bikes, dig around in leathers
for change, drop it on the ground, remove helmet and gloves while
you look for money on ground
find money, pay toll, put helmet back on, mount bike
put gloves back on bike, start bike and depart
and
I reckon if a cupla thousand bikes did this in Synney in peak
hour..the whole place would stop

or must you have an e-tag?????

cheers

I'll be in on this one if/when it happens.

Smitty wrote:why don't you lot (NSW riders) all get together and go thru the booths one day and pay cash..... by stopping and getting off ya bikes, dig around in leathers etc.

Way back when Jesus was in short pants, a whole bunch of North Shore drivers did this in cars when the toll on the Harbour Bridge went from 20c to $1.00 (I think?) Government response - the toll is now $3.00.

I still pay using coins, but the delay only makes the cars behind you ratty... so long as they get the $$ they don't care how long it takes.

Thanks for the interest everyone but please read MCofNSW's entire article (as posted) closely; they plan these things very carefuly with excellence and we don't want a miss-understanding getting out of hand.

Particularly
"Any protest will be a display of strength of numbers, NOT to inconvenience
other drivers, particularly emergency or commercial traffic.".

The fact we pay the same as cars is simply illogical; thus we should easily have support from most car drivers as well as riders.
If we go creating havock at toll booths we'll only lose support from cagers... support that we'll definitely need if we want a good result.

The comparison of Car vs Truck & Bike vs Car is what MCofNSW will be playing their game with as it involves the majority of road users.

We want truckies and cagers thinking "hmm... yeah that is a bit stupid", not "hmm... well they do have to pay more but that tosser biker did put a scratch on my rear-view mirror that time while he was trying to kill himself on the way to work.".

Oh, and on that note; this-morning I saw 3 riders and 4 or 5 cars pull in front of stopping/slowing trucks at intersections and I'm freekin' sick of it.
Clearly they have never drove -or probably sat in- a truck.
To everyone reading: When a truck is preparing to stop, they're not giving you extra room to pull in front!

Just as a side point James, what do bikes pay for rego in NSW compared to cages? In Vic a car rego is $500 and for a bike is $450 (sorry aprox figures), if you want tolls at 1/4 then you may have to argue rego as well. Otherwise they'll just tell you the toll is based on road (rego) charges.

In UK a bike is about half that of a car, or less for small CCs

I can help with the rego costs:
Kawi 2002 636 - $95.00
Merc 1994 C220 - $247.00
Insurance - the same ($1,100)

Photomike; I assume you mean "rego" as registration + compulsary third party?
Bike registration here is around $85 -> $95, average cars are around $240.
Compulsary third part insurance is then another $470 (for me; 21 years old on a 750cc) or around $300 for an average car I beleive.

As you see; Australia - esspecially NSW - is quite screwed in the a#%e when it comes to motorbikes.

Apparently the government really really really don't want us riding bikes, or even scooters.

Compare this to somewhere like India; 2 wheelers have a higher speed limit on most roads than 4+ wheelers, comprehensive insurance for 1 year costs about 2 or 3 good meals in a resturaunt and registration costs roughly 2 lunches... yep, we're definitely screwed.


The day someone can justify the $300 increase in compulsary THIRD party insurance when I moved from the 250 -> 750... I'll gladly sell my bike and start playing chess professionaly.
Apparently on a 750cc bike we will cause 50% more injury to other persons... riiiiight. And apparently now I'm on a 750, I will cause the same amount of damage as my friend's 1960 (probably cast-iron) kingswood with 4 wheel drum brakes.


I'm winging but I'm also quite pro-active. But step 1 is to get these tolls sorted out.
If we can win the tolls we have no chance at insurance (registration is quite fair I think; just insurance is a bloody scam).
I don't mind the massively high uncompulsary insurances because I just self-insure; but forcing us to accept the dodging market practices of private insurers is just BS.

*says in an echoey God like voice*
Compulsary insurance should be public... public... lic... ic...

Third-party Insurance info from my political buddy who will remain known as "Tim".

third party premiums are calculated by taking total liabilities of the insurer and diving them by the number of drivers or in this case, riders, the insurance company has to cover.
You must also understand that bike riders may also have their individual claims experience taken into account. Personal injury claims from accidents involving bikes will also be higher. So while the claimant is the car driver, the person who is injured was riding a bike. It is easy for the insurance company to argue that if they have to pay more claims because it's easier for a bike rider to be injured then they should be allowed to add that increased cost to the riders insurance premium. Just think, even though the car drivers were at fault, if there were no bike riders on the road getting hurt, it would cost the insurance companies less. Personal injury, the basis for CTP, would be much higher, in payout terms, for a bike rider because on average the injuries would be more severe.

The best example would be to compare the CTP premiums for bikes vs. cars then the third party property for bikes vs. cars.

Bikes are physically less able to do damage to other vehicles so this premium should be less costly.

I can give you some options if you still want to bring this before the Insurance Council - the industry body for insurance companies.

Now the toll one - completly unfair. Tolls should be less for bikes... This should be taken up with the Government by way of petition. I can help you draft one if you are interested.

Let me know.

Regards,

Tim

I'd definitley take time off work to be in the show of force. Something has to be done about the tolls and e-tags.

This gov is getting carried away with tollways. The liverpool to hornsby link will be up soon adding more toll booths and $/km, and now theres talk of a new freeway to QLD with toll. I remember not too long ago when there would be signs at some roadworks that said something along the lines of "funded by..... (some state fuel tax)". Wheres money collected from the fuel taxes going to then?

What I'd like to know is that with the ever increasing number of tollways, is a seperate e-tag required for each one of them or will 1 do for all of them?

They might as well just put a toll both at everyones drive way.

Most etags work on most roads... most.
Don't know of a single comprehensive comparison list though.
I beleive the RTA supplied e-tag works on all but with a slightly more "rigid" pricing structure.

That's who I'd go with though. I try to give the private road industry as little support of possible, haha.

Thus I go through Lane Cove & over ANZAC bridge whenever I ride to work.