Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Okay, this may piss a few people off, and think who the fuck is this smartarse!! first off its not meant to offend anyone, i just want to open this up for for feedback. so hear me out then bag me if u all want to!!!
Track days, now we all love them hey.
I dont do a lot per month, but ive done a lot of them over the last 31 yrs, now i only ride in the fast groups so this was all new to me. ive only ever done med/ fast groups twice, 1st time was a couple of yrs ago at broady, booked into med/ fast because i was testing a few things and it was a friday before a race meet, so knew there would be a lot of fast guys there,and didnt want to be a speed hump for the race guys, so went out but got flaged in after 5 laps and was told i cant ride in that group.
Last sunday i went to broady with a mate doing his 2nd track day,in med/fast, so thort i would do 3 sessions with him to help him out, follow him, him follow me ect, now to my point, ive never been so scared in my life, 4 abreast into turn 1, no one on the right line, braking way way to early, changing lines while braking ect, guys sitting up mid turn, braking, moving around like a dog with the shits, crash corner!! dont even start me on that one!!!!Ive done PI in fast group, with no crashes, yet other groups they go down like tenpins!
Now to my point, is there anyone who offers these people advice? like we have riding schools to start people off. I kno we have superbike school ect, done a few myself, but there not cheap, and most prob cant afford it. do any of u ride day regulars offer help to these people? i for one dont like to see them crash. A good ride day is when the bike goes back on the trailer, the same way it came off. back in the 90's i was a riding instructor for many yrs(ace driving school in brissy) so if any of u guys went there then, u prob got me.Now this is my offer to anyone wanting to get into ride days,or improve themselves, im willing to give some of my time to help anyone, time permitting, work long hours!!! im willing to help with all things related to ride days, on track, and bike setup ect.
This is not having a go at anyone, would just like to see people improve themselves, because trust me, those groups are fuckin scary!!!! get up to speed, and get in the fast groups, there safer by a long way, i feel sorry for those that are close to fast groups, but dont have the confendence to move up. so my offers stands if anyone interested.

i thought that was the whole idea of marshals out on track? to pick out the 'trouble makers'. ?

My last day at Broadford saw a lot of bikes go down; especially in the lower groups (like mine ). It wasn't so much trouble makers as inexperienced and unguided. Having a mentor is not such a bad idea. We have all learned from others at some stage, and I'm trying to pass on my experience to my sons, so they don't have to break their bones to learn. Might see you up there BG. Willing to pick up any tips.

You can never change the fact there will always be up to 40 different riding styles on the track in your group, there are good & bad days & yes I agree its worse now than it was 12 years ago but that can probably be attributed to the fact that the bikes are so much better & there are more punters wanting to give it a go.

I think thats the thing, ride days are becoming very popular, more so than ever before, its a rock and a hard place, how do u get exp, u have to get out there, flagies do a ok job, ive had problems at PI, where they let slower riders out in red, and i mean slower!took 3 sessions one time to get a rider out of red that should not have been there, 160 thru turn 3 than braking way way to early, was nearly rear ended by guy in front of me, i mean why wouldn't u take urself out of that group, cant be fun having bikes come past at speed all day??
Done a lot of champions ride days and find that they are well run, most times! A while back they moved a guy up to fast, and he blocked me twice, at crash than turn 1, a lap or so later he ran a guy off at crash corner, who went down, not his fault at all, i propped behind him as i didnt kno what he was going to do, guy behind came past, than this chap braked and moved to centre track, left him nowhere to go!! down he went.
i had a chat to this young guy,after he came and said sorry to me, i said maybe u should go talk to guy u took out, but credit to him to come looking for me to say sorry.
So i had a chat to him, bad thing was, he didnt kno what he had done wrong, said they moved him up as yellow was only small group that day, said mate if u uncomfortable u should have said so, and they would have left u there,he than packed up and left, which isnt the point. Which brings me to my point, guy had a bad exp, and prob hasnt been back.

Ehhhh not sure if that it is even safe in red anymore.

I have seen hire bikes out in red at PI before. Madkaw and I were have a dice a year or 2 back when we came around turn one flat stick only to almost both run straight over this guy. I was certainly us that saved that incident from getting very ugly as he putted along in his own world thinking he was tops.

I have also been know to give the bird too 2 different instructors making obstacles of themselves in red at PI. So annoyed was this guy that he felt he would come and pick an argument with me in the Pitts straight after the session. I politely told him that he was a hazard, I. Which he responded by saying he was an instructor. Haha I don't think he liked it when I said he should stop trying to teach what u can't do.

As for educating others ........... Well at last count I had more apprentices than i know what to do with and the same can be said for Wattie and Madkaw . Some people can ride and will pick it up with time, others just won't.

When are you coming up to Brissy...lol.

I have to agree. It can be extremely scary in lower groups. I went in the slow intermediate group to bed some new tyres and brake pads at Queensland Raceway and it was frightening.

The thing is that the organisers don't let you pass on the inside in that group and it was terrifying trying to get past some people because of the weird lines they take, how early they brake and how unstable they are through mid corner.

To be able to help, I guess the first thing is that people have to realise that what they're doing isn't that good and then 'want' to get help for it. I reckon most don't know. They think they're doing ok. But blokes always like to think they're good in bed and good drivers (riders) (just ask a woman ).

(my wife is laughing her head off at that last comment)

there is coaching available through champions

http://championsridedays.com.au/portal/ ... ew/24/105/

otherwise HART have days at Broadford where you can ride like a numpty and go around with not much pressure to get the feel for it.

Last time i was down the island, i wanted to drop down to med/ fast but my mate who was a ex national super sport rider said no, drop down and u will go home happy that u beat everyone, but u will learn nothing from them, stay in red and learn by following/watching the race guys, and as he said u are doing nothing wrong, lines are good ect, as i said here before, i had a national level rider put his elbo into my shoulder at turn 1 one day, after i passed him under the bridge, than he came past at turn 1 when he did this, i didnt complain, but my mate said dont worry about it as he couldnt be to concered about u as he would'nt have got that close if he was worried about where u were going.Which made me feel a bit better about it. hi tack, will be getting back up there soon, so will put post up when booked, be nice to meet a few of u up there. i see QR is getting rougher by the day!!

Yep they do have coaching at champions, wayne maxwell does it as do other racers, but not all the time, last time i was talking to wayne he told me he charges $150 for the day, it may have gone up im not sure, but thats bloody good value i think. I did a day with shannon johnson a couple of yrs ago, and learnt heaps

If we were in a perfect world then all the groups would have riders with the same or similar abilities and would all be going at a similar speed. Unfortunately life's not like that and there are a small number of riders who think their ability is far greater than what it is and I agree that is dangerous especially when they are mobile chicaines in the faster groups. For those riders that are dangerously slow and out there in the fast group they definitely need to be brought to the attention of the track day organisers and I would doubt that the rider would think that they need any sort of instruction or assistance with their riding.

On the flip side of the coin I guess you need to remember what you were like when you started out. We all had to start somewhere and we don't get where we are going without practice.

If you are fast and riding around in the med-fast or slower groups, even if it is just to scrub tyres in, then you need to consider that there is going to be a huge speed and ability difference in those groups and the riders aren't going to be as exprienced and stay on the correct line. So, when you are approaching them give them more space and anticipate that they are going to do something stupid or wrong and you might have more time to get out of the way if they get it all horribly wrong.

Hi all,
Everything said here sounds like common sense to me,I only recently joined the forum and have been reading through all the posts.All good info!
I'm keen to do some ride days,but was concerned i'd be too slow.I didnt want to spoil anyones fun!In this day and age you can't ride more than about 1/10th i reckon with out gettin thrown in jail,so i've got sfa real riding experience.I cant afford it but still signed up for the California superbike school course so i could at least get a feel for the track,before i became one of those mobile chicanes.I reckon its a lot cheaper in the long run than tossing away something expensive.not to mention getting hurt.
Dont worry i aint going to start in red or green thats for sure.
I think there should be some sort of qualifying system where you work your way up,rather than leaving the decision to the punters as to what group they start in.Not for racers but ppl who have little or no track experience.
different world,using all the track let alone setting up your suspension and braking at that sort of pace i reckon.
So if anyone wants the worlds oldest apprentice i'll see you down there.lol

easy fix , give everyone a transponder and assess the groups based on the times after the first session. Problem resolved. Put lights on it so it automatically flashes up the color of the group your ride in next. i.e red, green , yellow, white . Probably bruise a few egos's but at least everyone generally would be in the correct groups .

I would also consider reducing the white group times to 15min and increasing red to 25min sessions, i can remember in white group loosing concentration after 15min or so, and have one session for the fast guys i.e racers , top guners to go mental , no rules, mono's , slides , whatever they want, let them have some real fun

09sydrd wrote:easy fix , give everyone a transponder and assess the groups based on the times after the first session. Problem resolved. Put lights on it so it automatically flashes up the color of the group your ride in next. i.e red, green , yellow, white . Probably bruise a few egos's but at least everyone generally would be in the correct groups .

I would also consider reducing the white group times to 15min and increasing red to 25min sessions, i can remember in white group loosing concentration after 15min or so, and have one session for the fast guys i.e racers , top guners to go mental , no rules, mono's , slides , whatever they want, let them have some real fun

Good idea to have people grouped based on their times, but I think the problem with timing people relates to liability insurance issues for the ride day organisers.

The Champion Ride Days idea and would be great if they ran something like that at Eastern Creek and for what the Creek are charging for ride days surely they could run something like that for only a small amount of extra $'s. Maybe make it compulsory for first timers to participate in some instruction for their first couple of sessions.

I think 25 minutes for red group is way too long. The testosterone factor wins over the fatigue factor so you will get too many guys out there, especially at the end of the day, who keep going even though they are fatigued and then crashes start to happen.

Ecrd's do have a first timers program which they run for free. Al run these and he does know his shit, I'd go as far to say he is one of the few SBS coaches I actually have respect for. He runs sbs L4 one on one tuition which is the only one I'd consider now but unfortunately they won't let you straight to L4 they want you to do all the lower levels first.

Sorry back on topic, Al's does what he can with the little time he has with all the newbies, but yes, I agree tuition at ecrd's is far to expensive.