Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

So, results are in with the news being ruptured disc L5,S4. Whatever that means.
Explanations from doctor, physio and nurse really said nothing.

Anyone know what i've done and how to fix it? I will of course be seeking further professional advuce, but just wanted some pre information.

Dr Glenno says you've fucked your back. Sorry mate but it's all I've got.

Damn mate that's crap. Do ruptured discs fix themselves or do they need surgery?

Mate that's no good! Maybe you ease up on the rough you know what!

I should try and pop over soon are you free this weekend?

Thien

Strika wrote:So, results are in with the news being ruptured disc L5,S4. Whatever that means.
Explanations from doctor, physio and nurse really said nothing.

Anyone know what i've done and how to fix it? I will of course be seeking further professional advuce, but just wanted some pre information.

Marty
having a ruptured L3 and L4, let me tell you NOTHING fixes it (and I have checked out just about everything over the past 12 years)
do NOT let anyone tell you surgery can fix it (modern medicine cannot replace ruptured discs)
so
what can you do?

exercise (no NOT horizontal gymnastics however good you feel that is) swimming is good, bicycling not bad, running is shite
also stuff like Pilates and posture exercises is tops (as is physio treatment from someone who knows how to work this)
and
finally do stuff the female of the species does..pelvic floor strengthening ( I know you cant have kids )
but it helps straighten you up and strengthen your muscles that help keep you upright
all good things to do

what causes it?
height, weight, job, sedentary work (too much sitting), genetics, general wear and tear on the body, accident (car or bike) household chore (who actually practices safe lifting?)
any of these or more than one can act to split that little spinal shock absorber


and get some good medical advice ..

cheers

Smitty

ps
stay away from Chiros I have not found one (have consulted LOTS) who do not make it worse
and
let me tell you someone twisting/cracking/re-positioning the spine when you have a ruptured disc in your back
is a good excuse for murder that would stand up in court (and NO painkiller known to man works in this case )

Glen wrote:.......
Do ruptured discs fix themselves or do they need surgery?

no
and no is the answer




unfortunately

Discs get compressed between vertebrae and can even protrude if compressed enough which impinges the nerves causing muscle spasm and pain. Protruding discs can be lanced surgically, but the usual cause of action for a compressed disc is physio and rehab. By your age Marty, discs are solid rubbery material which don't rupture but for some reason people still keep using that terminology. The disc they are referring to (L5,S1) is between the lowest individual vertebrae (5th lumbar vertebrae) and the Sacrum, which is the middle part of your pelvis.

Well thats shit but i can help,Swiming schedule is generally tuesday night and saturday arvo.Eltham leisure centre.
As for the chiros i will never see one of them again,i had a cracked verterbrea and he kept manipulating until i said no more its getting worse.He eventually went and got the xray and recheched it.Oh im sorry we should let this heal before we do more treatments.
Yeah right buddy see ya later NOT.

..........................

I did my back in recently aswell, slipped a disc and pinched my sciatic nerve which goes down your leg. My god the pain is excruciating couldn't stand up straight for 2 days.
You could try some anti inflammatory drugs such as Mobic 15mg(need prescription) also lots of physio and stretching will help.

Good luck with it all Marty.

Nelso wrote: By your age Marty, discs are solid rubbery material which don't rupture but for some reason people still keep using that terminology.

I should clarify what I was saying last night as it is worded poorly, probably due to me being half asleep and answering in a hurry. Young discs are harder on the outside but soft in the middle so they are far more elastic, but can actually be ruptured in severe trauma and the jelly like inside can be pushed out. As you get older the whole disc solidifies but can still protrude out from between the vertebrae when the space between them narrows, this is called a herniated disc. A herniated disc, despite it not actually being ruptured, is referred to as a ruptured disc.

I started training a young football player years ago to help treat a herniated disc. He ended up getting it lanced and was back playing with no symptoms a month post surgery compared to the previous 12 months of pain, missed games, needles and compromised weights programs so sometimes surgery can help, but as with every occupation you need to find the good ones to get a good result. The chiro I know saw this kid, refused to touch him and got him into the best surgeon within a week (he had an 8 week waiting list to see him). He will not adjust anyone without xray and assessment first and spends more time massaging, stretching and giving exercises than "manipulating", but he is the ONLY chiro I will refer people to as the majority in my opinion are as others have described above. On the flip side, the physios I have a connection with don't have ANY machines they put on people and use hands on techniques including dry needling (acupuncture) and manipulating joints. My point is, most good therapists these days all treat things in a similar way but there are still plenty that treat things the traditional way for their mode of practice and are useless in comparison. There are more "just go through the motions" therapists around than exceptional ones, but the key is to find an exceptional one.

As for the disc Marty, pelvic stability exercising are the key to minimising the aggravation to the nerve that the disc is impinging on but start looking for expert therapists (like those that get paid huge amounts to treat the best footy players etc as they are usually more up to date with the latest way to treat things for the best results) to see what the BEST course of action is.

I ruptured two discs L4/5 about 10 years ago when i was 29.All the experts agreed, and i saw shitloads over 2 years,that I needed surgery.The specailists said that if your pain isn't any better after 18 months of rest and physio then surgery was my best bet.After the surgery the pain is far greater than before,i now have to take pain killers daily,and it's been that way for the past 8 years.So from my own experience and all the people i've spoken to at pain clinics and physio's, IMHO DON'T have SURGERY unless your on your death bed pain wise.

see a SPECIALIST SPINAL surgeon only, not an ortho.
Unfortunately they are few and far between, but i do know of a good one in sydney.

Google Dr Brian Hsu.

hibster wrote:I ruptured two discs L4/5 about 10 years ago when i was 29.All the experts agreed, and i saw shitloads over 2 years,that I needed surgery.The specailists said that if your pain isn't any better after 18 months of rest and physio then surgery was my best bet.After the surgery the pain is far greater than before,i now have to take pain killers daily,and it's been that way for the past 8 years.So from my own experience and all the people i've spoken to at pain clinics and physio's, IMHO DON'T have SURGERY unless your on your death bed pain wise.

luckily the specialists I saw said...NO surgery whenever discs are ruptured
interesting that even the medicos can't agree here

hibster wrote:.After the surgery the pain is far greater than before,i now have to take pain killers daily,and it's been that way for the past 8 years.

If its helpful, chronic pain shouldnt be treated with acute pain killers ie endone or oxycontin; there short acting, lead to dependence; requiring increasing dose to get the same effects and have lots of secondary side effects such as bowel, liver and psychiatric issues.

A central pain modifier (ie like Neurontin or Lyrica) gives longer and better pain control which is specifically for neurogenic pain ie a spinal or nerve injury. Its not a cure but preventing pain for longer periods allows you do more of your daily activities.

If your having sleeping issues, a small dose of Endep (antidepressant) potentiates the effects of neurontin or lyrica promoting better longer lasting sleep and pain control.

I've been living with a messed up C6 and C7 plus a ruptured lumbar disk since I was in my late 20's. I was told then to never get it operated on and it appears the concensus of the people on this forum agree. I've kept mine under control with exercise. Everybody I know who has had surgery is worse off than they were before. A chiropracter will adjust you until hell freezes over and buy him/herself a new Mercedes with your money and won't help you a bit. Just my opinion of course but I'm 65 and still mobil, although the pain is always there, I just learned to live with it. Jim Beam helps as well. The best exercises for me are; knee bends without weights, sit ups with bent knees, pull ups, (I can still do 16), pulling my legs up to my chest, an inversion machine, (as pictured in JeffLThomas comment) and most of the other excercises mentioned by Smitty. Good luck! Old age is not for wimps.