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Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:44 pm
by Smitty
VicRoads have released more details -
VicRoads is reviewing the current system for licensing motorcyclists.
The high crash risk of inexperienced riders has highlighted the need to update licensing for motorcyclists to reflect the road safety needs of today’s riders

more here - http://arrivealive.vic.gov.au/motorcyclegls


but here is the fun part....YOU can fill the questionnaire out here -
http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/initi ... nnair.html?#

you do get a chance to also have your say in the questionnaire...go for it :twisted:

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:33 pm
by chimp
G'day Smitty, just spent 2hrs on the fun bit, lambasting vic roads on every question! then I submitted it. only to get an error message followed by losing the lot! ya think its designed that way just to piss us off?

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:21 pm
by Rossi
I don't think they'll like my replies either :twisted: new_snipersmilie.gif

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:25 pm
by dilligaf
chimp wrote:G'day Smitty, just spent 2hrs on the fun bit, lambasting vic roads on every question! then I submitted it. only to get an error message followed by losing the lot! ya think its designed that way just to piss us off?
me too but I didn't spend 2 hours on it.

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:17 pm
by seiko1
I spent a good half hour on that bastard and when I submitted it came up with SQL Error FFS :roll: :x

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:29 pm
by Robsalvv
Great to see that this has been posted up on KSRC. Your not the only ones who have reported an SQL error trying to give comments.

I'm mostly on NR and I've been trying to generate some interest in this paper... I strongly encourage you to spread the word and get out there amongst your non forum savvy rider friends... this discussion paper has some serious negative possibilities for riding.


The apparent goal of the proposal is to produce better noob (aka novice) riders. That's a worthy goal. The most conservative proposed changes however will see a P plate license cost well over $14000, with L plate riders only allowed to ride in daylight, with mandatory safety and high viz gear whilst being supervised by an accredited trainer. Yes, you read that right. And the net benefit is questionable - it even says so in the paper. So it's in your best interests to get reading the paper and make your comments heard. Change is coming. Help guide the learner system that will be used by your brother, sister, mate, son, daughter, mother in the near future.

You have until Friday 29 October 2010 to get your feedback to Vicroads via snail mail (no stamp required):

Motorcycle GLS Discussion Paper
VICROADS
Reply Paid 72780
KEW VIC 3101

or use the online feedback form (if it fracking works) at: http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/motorcycleGLS


There are some good things in it, but on the whole, the document has FIVE critical flaws:


First flaw: Predetermined outcome!
Do not gloss over the first 15pages. They have been carefully crafted to drive the uncritical reader to a predetermined conclusion. This is a terrible discussion paper from that point of view alone. They cherry pick stats from papers around the world and use them in a disputable way to make a case for their proposals.



Second flaw: It doesn't make the case about what's wrong with the current GLS!
Though this is a paper about the improvements to the current Vic motorcycle GLS, they spend no time actually showing how the current scheme is actually failing. To me this is truly a flaw. They actually describe the current GLS in detail then absolutely fall flat on their face by stating that a 19 yo can become fully licenced to ride an unrestricted bike in the current scheme. This is flat wrong.



Third flaw: They're foisting the car model onto bikes!
The basic premise is that motorcyclists crash and die more than car drivers/occupants and this is bad. The inference is that car like stats are the only acceptable stat.

The discussion paper also refers to driver GLS schemes and it models it's key proposals on these car driver GLS schemes. It does this, despite questioning their direct relevance and applicability to motorcycling.



Fourth flaw: Fatality/Injury stats are flawed!
Figure 2 shows that more riders are being seriously injured - and it's this that drives their case. Yes it's true, but the chart actually reflects an increase in the numbers of riders that by the paper's own reckoning, are crashing at a lower rate. (see last column of table 1). In fact, if you crunch out the number of fatalities per 10000 registrations (you'll have to break out the calculator) the reduction is stark! However, the paper powers on regardless. There are a host of other statistical flaws but I'll expand on this later.



Fifth flaw: Biased survey questions!
The discussion paper asks for feedback via answering their specifically structured and targeted questions. I'm not well versed in reverse engineering the bias in survey questions, but to my eye, the bias is pretty clear. So answer them carefully and include detailed comments in the space allowed. Actually, I'd encourage writing a free form critique instead as answering their questions plays into their predetermined proposals.



So a document that is pretty critically flawed is going to be used to design a new licensing scheme which may very well discourage new riders from taking up riding... that's NOT a good outcome. Hope you guys take the time to resubmit your comments.

Cheers.

Rob

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:48 pm
by Smitty
seiko1 wrote:I spent a good half hour on that bastard and when I submitted it came up with SQL Error FFS :roll: :x


worked just fine and dandy for me...no errors so my comments are in :kuda:

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:51 pm
by Smitty
Robsalvv wrote:Great to see that this has been posted up on KSRC. Your not the only ones who have reported an SQL error trying to give comments.

I'm mostly on NR and I've been trying to generate some interest in this paper... I strongly encourage you to spread the word and get out there amongst your non forum savvy rider friends... this discussion paper has some serious negative possibilities for riding.
..............
ignoring the SQL error issue for a moment...Rob is spot on with his post
the supporting papers/proposal/facts from Vicroads are heavily biased AGAINST US ..that is all riders

I replied with that in mind :twisted:

Re: Vic graduated licence changes...more

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:22 pm
by seiko1
Well all of my comments were extremely critical and for once....well thought out ( :lol: )
To have it come up with the bloody error upon submitting it, was very FRUSTRATING :x
A rider riot would be a lot easier you know, and we could burn down all the vicroads offices and kill brumby,
all in all, a lot more entertaining than filling out a BS form :lol: :kuda: