Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

From the MCCofNSW

Its a big file..
New Laws in SA...

http://www.mrasa.asn.au/images/video/BB.wmv

Haha, good old Today Tonight.

Good on them for reporting ALL of the facts, and not just some of the facts.
Good on them for getting the MRA president on and calling him an "ex-law student". I'm sure they thought that added some level of credibility. All it did from my point of view, was make me question why he didn't finish his law degree.
Good on them for getting some old geezer and sticking him in front of a book case full of books that no-one has probably ever read. I'm not sure he had anything worthwhile to say, but the books certainly made him look the part.

There have been consorting laws in SA for decades and I'm not aware of a single "innocent" person being arrested for it. These new laws are just an extension of those laws and are designed to stop a particular element of society who are "suspected" of, amongst other things; drug smuggling, drug dealing, prostitution (have heard of cases of 14 year old girls being prostituted out), murder, assaults, money laundering, blackmail etc.

Without having read the proposed bill, it's obviously a little difficult to comment on the finer points of it and I'm sure if the Law Society have some concerns about it then they are probably well founded concerns. However, I can't see 25,000 motorcyclists on the Toy Run being arrested.

Ok Today Tonight has sensationalised the story but it is definitely of concern if a bill like this was passed

i was actually one of the riders that was in the clip.

i think the real fears are the fact its guilty by association. that u have no recourse. or ability to contest it.

it was a knee jerk reaction hoping for positive publicity of actually doing something.. with out actually doing anything of worth.

I would be interested in reading the bill before passing comment but you have to be concerned with the two following points that seem factual
1- Automatic Guilt, you need to proove your innoscence.
2- Guilt by association.

very scary stuff for a so called free country.

Blurr wrote:I would be interested in reading the bill before

If you really have nothing better to do:
http://www.sa.democrats.org.au/SERIOUS% ... 007.UN.pdf

this was an experience from one of our Adelaide Riders from my other forum.

"well Friday while my boyfriend was riding home from work, something interesting happened.

He was on his VFR800, in a full face helmet, jacket & draggins.

some clown pulled up next to him at the lights in his car, wound down his window & said 'you f&@%* bikies make me sick'

BF says 'what?'
cager says 'you're all f&@%* criminals. should be in jail'
BF says 'actually I have an australia wide government security clearance, how about you'
Cager says '........well that doesn't matter, you're a drug dealer & criminal, get off the f&@%* road'
BF says' and what the hell are you going to do about it?'
Cagers starts to get out the car 'i'll show you what i'm going to f&@%* do about it!!'
lights turn green
BF says 'here i'll give you something to really bitch about' and pops a wheelie as he blasts away. "

I'm in NSW, but once one state starts a law you can assume the others will follow. So this means I would be jailed for going to the tavern I drink at because a club has their clubhouse down the road. I also buy from shops which are on the same stretch so I could get done if a member happened to be walking down the street. Well seeing as this is a public forum I might as well go all out, convict myself, and tell the gestapo that my girlsfriend's father happens to be a member of this club. That, of course, makes me a career criminal. Hmmm, combine that with my chemistry degree and I must be making drugs. Although technically my degree is for biochemistry and molecular biology so I must be making chemical and biological weapons (WMDs). Well that fits, bikie clubs are considered terrorist organisations... At least they did point out that only 10% of the members are the actual career criminals. The rest just happen to strongly disagree with the treatment handed to them by society.

And for the record, say no to drugs, prostitution and all that other $#!& every rider is supposed to be into.

I do, however, still have faith that this could not possibly stand up to a High Court Challenge. Then again...

Did I go too far this time?

I agree about the standing up in court if convicted for this, Guilty by association, and Guilty until proven innocent run against the very basis of the justice system in this country. This could make for some nice big compensation payouts, look at the fiasco surrounding those muslim fellas they locked for being terrorists in Melb. not so long ago. Similar type of law, implemented poorly, and carried out by the same inept crook cops that would be persuing motorcylists under this new law.

lifeofcrimeguy wrote:Well seeing as this is a public forum I might as well go all out, convict myself, and tell the gestapo that my girlsfriend's father happens to be a member of this club. That, of course, makes me a career criminal.

I'd suggest you actually try readnig the bill and you'll see that what you claim isn't quite true:

The following forms of associations will be disregarded for the purposes of this
section unless the prosecution proves that the association was not reasonable in the circumstances:
(a) associations between close family members;
(b) associations occurring in the course of a lawful occupation, business or profession;
(c) associations occurring at a course of training or education of a prescribed 10 kind between persons enrolled in the course;
(d) associations occurring at a rehabilitation, counselling or therapy session of a prescribed kind;
(e) associations occurring in lawful custody or in the course of complying with a court order;
(f) associations of a prescribed kind.

jl4049 wrote:I agree about the standing up in court if convicted for this, Guilty by association, and Guilty until proven innocent run against the very basis of the justice system in this country.

At the end of the day, anyone suspected of comitting an offence under this new bill will still have to go to court. Allegations will be made by Police and the court will decide if the suspected person is guilty or not. That's no different than just about every other law in this country.

It's not all doom and gloom. If you live next to someone who is a club member, have a family member who is a club member, go on their "Poker Runs", join in with the Christmas Toy Runs etc, then you really don't have anything to worry about. As I've said, the Today Tonight story was an extremely sensationalised piece of crap and the MRA's carry on was just an embarrassment to them as an organisation.

Lol yes, I was attempting to fight fire with fire, and be sensational myself. Maybe I'm just far too good an actor? Anyone know the number for Hollywood?
At the end of the day, Whilst I have little faith in either the political or judicial system of this and other countries, I still believe that some people out there are strong enough to stand up. For that reason I don't think that this bill will get through unscathed, nor do I think that innocent people going on trips, etc. will get done in. However, there has been a slide towards secretive policing. Secretive policing, where you can't find out how evidence was obtained and in some circumstances what the evidence actually is, means by its very nature that a fair trial is not possible. It basically means that you can't fight charges based on fighting the evidence, but have to go a harder path and try to prove innocence instead. This is NOT the same as pressumption of guilt, but puts the defendent in a similar tactical position. Thus far these scenarios have only been played in terror trials. But allowing secretive policing for civilian matters, even for organised crime, is a dangerous precendent. Now I realise that this Act reads similar to any other Act and that it's not really anything different from what is already in effect in other settings. It's really all just a rant about 'protection of criminal intelligence' aka secretive policing.

Oh, and that passage doesn't cover past, present or future in-laws.

that was an interesting clip.....

Jase - the MRA Pres was a 'former' law student, not an 'ex' law student. He may well have finished his degree....

The old bloke standing in front of all those books is a lawyer. They always have books in those offices - some of which those old men have actually read ...

The new laws are way more than just an extension of the current law against consorting. Its the potential abuse of power that concerns people - if there are already laws against consorting, why does SA need more laws for the same problem ?

In any case, as you know most of the hard-core bikers do have some type of lawful business, and according to (ii), any associations in the course of normal business etc, are exempt from this new legislation......any defence lawyer worth 2 bob will get a client off easily.

But - I think the inferences drawn by TT about all the Toy Run bikers being charged are a bit stupid...

Is that link you posted the full draft legislation ?