Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

"THEY WOULD LOWER ALL SPEED LIMITS"



I have been thinking long and hard about the logic of the never ending catch cry that speed kills and it's speed which is our greatest enemy on the roads.

Here is my take on the thinking behind it! If speed was emphatically, undeniably to blame for all these deaths, thus warranting the use of speed camera's to control this, surely they would just lower the speed limits????????????????

It's bloody simple in my mind! If speed is truly the cause, then you would naturally lower the speed limits!!!! It's just logic! Rather than legislate to collect revenue from this highly dangerous practice!!!!!!!!

No, I don't condone or support this train of thought, but if it truly were speed to blame, then there would be no other course of action would there? You would have to legislate lower speed limits, or, suffer unending litigation from those who crash following the current speed limits!!!! Are there any Solicitors/Barristers/PP'S/QC's in here can spin this one up????????

Strika wrote:"THEY WOULD LOWER ALL SPEED LIMITS"



I have been thinking long and hard about the logic of the never ending catch cry that speed kills and it's speed which is our greatest enemy on the roads.

Here is my take on the thinking behind it! If speed was emphatically, undeniably to blame for all these deaths, thus warranting the use of speed camera's to control this, surely they would just lower the speed limits????????????????

It's bloody simple in my mind! If speed is truly the cause, then you would naturally lower the speed limits!!!! It's just logic! Rather than legislate to collect revenue from this highly dangerous practice!!!!!!!!

No, I don't condone or support this train of thought, but if it truly were speed to blame, then there would be no other course of action would there? You would have to legislate lower speed limits, or, suffer unending litigation from those who crash following the current speed limits!!!! Are there any Solicitors/Barristers/PP'S/QC's in here can spin this one up????????

its funny tho, the last two crashes I have had have not been my fault on both happend at well under the posted limit.

please note that the fact they claim "speed" related does not in any way have any bearing on posted speed limits !
i.e.
If you have an accident at 20K/Hr on an icy road then the assumption is that 20K/Hr was too fast "for the conditions"

You've also got to remember that it's a tightrope they have to walk with speedlimits, safety (of mostly idiots) verses getting somewhere in a decent timeframe. I mean if they had 60km/h as the limit through vic/nsw i'd *MAYBE* be getting home from our 3500km roadtrip now instead of last friday evening.

The thing is though, speed is one of the easiest things to quantify, tailgating, cutting people off or just general shitfull behaviour on the road (which i think causes much more accidents) is a lot harder to measure than simply checking how many meters/second you're travelling and then slapping you with a ticket. Also it would likely require more time to assess, more evidence rather than "i saw it on mah little speedy gun thingo and rote it down" to get any penalties imposed.

Also watching "speeders" on telly the other day, the HWP officer pretty much said "the speed limit is 65, the average traffic speed is 78-80, we start picking people off once they get up around 90 or so." which pretty much reflects what we saw when we were over driving to vegas.

Strika wrote:"THEY WOULD LOWER ALL SPEED LIMITS"



I have been thinking long and hard about the logic of the never ending catch cry that speed kills and it's speed which is our greatest enemy on the roads.

Here is my take on the thinking behind it! If speed was emphatically, undeniably to blame for all these deaths, thus warranting the use of speed camera's to control this, surely they would just lower the speed limits????????????????
It's bloody simple in my mind! If speed is truly the cause, then you would naturally lower the speed limits!!!! It's just logic! Rather than legislate to collect revenue from this highly dangerous practice!!!!!!!!

Marty
..the 'final' solution to this question ....is the way motoring started
a man walking carrying a red light in front of every vehicle

Death toll...zero I reckon
Unemployment ...zero too




but there is not a pollie anywhere with the guts to do it.....

cheers
Smitty

If they were so concerned about people dying on the roads because they were going faster than the speed limit, they would make the cars speed limited. l say just make ever car a 2lt 4cyl diesel.......no more speeders

SnypR wrote:If they were so concerned about people dying on the roads because they were going faster than the speed limit, they would make the cars speed limited. l say just make ever car a 2lt 4cyl diesel.......no more speeders

My darling wife used to own a 2l Diesel Vectra back in ole Blighty - I remember on a trip to Scotland waking up in the passenger seat and seeing her grin and a speedo reading 120


MPH!

That's about 190Kph, and this was on an A-road with open sweepers, not a boring straight motorway mind.

Speed doesn't kill, it's the sudden stop at the end that causes the problem.

Oh, and Marty, speed is a factor in all accidents, if no car/bike/truck etc were moving, none would crash. They may as well say people are the cause off all accidents, as all accidents are caused by humans controlling the vehicle. Therefore fine everything being operated by a person.

mike-s wrote:.......Also watching "speeders" on telly the other day, the HWP officer pretty much said "the speed limit is 65, the average traffic speed is 78-80, we start picking people off once they get up around 90 or so." which pretty much reflects what we saw when we were over driving to vegas.....

this also reflects the prevailing attitude of the Gendarmes in Europe. A great story in Two Wheels a few years ago, at the release of another unremarkable Ducati (I think it was the 916 ), the writer wrote about the local cops, and speeding.

Everyone speeds in Italy, its a god-given right. The local wallopers told our TW hero that they allow speeding over the posted limits, and only book those idiots who really are riding at very high speeds. This way, they collar the wankers who deserve to be collared, and the rest of the community gets along just fine.

Its a shame that such an enlightened attitude cannot be followed over here. Instead, its the 'Zero Tolerance' regime, which is worst in Mexico. 3km over the limit ???? For fucks sake, that extra speed does not, cannot, and will never KILL KILL KILL like they want you to believe. Funny how the fatal prangs at 3kmh LESS than the speed limit don't get any publicity about the speed, do they ???

thats just what they have done though

most 60 zones have now become 50, then theres 40 school zones where if a kid runs out in front of me i will hit it without even touching the brakes cause im watching the speedo, one road near me used to be a 100 zone when it was a single lane each way, they widened it to 3 and 3 lanes and made it a 80 / 70 zone.

wheres the logic, make a road better and reduce the speed????

problem is they make too much money out of it, if they looked at the data without trying to twist the results they would find as did Monash Uni that people who travel 10 to 15 over the limit are nearly 90% less likely to have an accident
most fatalities happen at 60kph or less

a lot of countries have actually increased speed limits and found accident rates have dropped, even the US i believe has raised the national limit to 75mph not that it really makes a difference, when i was in Georgia we the traffic flowed at around 90 mph

my thought is it's not speed thats the killer its lack of driver/rider training and education which leads to untrained inappropriate speed, obviously if theres nothing to hit then go faster, around town theres poles, trees, fences,etc, etc

why not say to p platers if you want to go pay your $400 for advanced driving lessons we will take 6 months off your p plates, that way they get off p's quicker, learn some skills and we the tax payers dont have to foot the bill

anyway rant over, i could go on for hours (blood is boiling)

interesting ideas, some plausible. but the boffins would say nae as it would contradict all the shit they've spent tens of millions promoting. Cant see anything happening in the next ten or more years for an improvement. A regression & tightening of rules based on consecutive kneejerk reactions? yeah i can picture that as more likely...

mike-s wrote: A regression & tightening of rules based on consecutive kneejerk reactions? yeah i can picture that as more likely...

Happening here now. The Kingborough Municipality in southern Tas is 'trialling' lower speed limits on rural roads. Will go from 100 down to 90 and on gravel it will be 80. Of course the pollies have already decided that it will reduce the road toll and are talking up introducing them statewide. What I think really happened is that the greed cameras aren't raising as much revenue as they used to ...

Birdman wrote:why not say to p platers if you want to go pay your $400 for advanced driving lessons we will take 6 months off your p plates, that way they get off p's quicker, learn some skills and we the tax payers dont have to foot the bill

anyway rant over, i could go on for hours (blood is boiling)

Excellent idea that one. I've been bleating for ages about more driver/rider training, here in mexico we should all get advanced rider training as we're being taxed for our safety anyways.

As for P platers, let em do an advanced driving course, let them lose control of a vehicle on a skid pan with notihng around to hit, shit like that, let them see the impact of a vehicle at 100 vs 60kmh or some such thing, surely if you wanna rediuce the road toll then better education has gotta help.....

Marty, ffs don't start logical arguments, they don't win votes!!!! And that's the bottom line!!!!

Daisy wrote:The Kingborough Municipality in southern Tas is 'trialling' lower speed limits on rural roads. Will go from 100 down to 90 and on gravel it will be 80. Of course the pollies have already decided that it will reduce the road toll and are talking up introducing them statewide. What I think really happened is that the greed cameras aren't raising as much revenue as they used to ...

Your shitting me, that's daft. I can understand 80/90 on unsealed roads, but were honestly just *TOO BIG* a country for dropping the speed limits. I could seriously see people either walking (for speeding) or people dying from having to be on the road longer and thusly making more mistakes (both from just being human and from fatigue from increased travel times).

Roll on the f*king revolution, either that, or im going to have to sort a european visa out and GTFO.

mick_dundee wrote:

Birdman wrote:why not say to p platers if you want to go pay your $400 for advanced driving lessons we will take 6 months off your p plates, that way they get off p's quicker, learn some skills and we the tax payers dont have to foot the bill

anyway rant over, i could go on for hours (blood is boiling)

Excellent idea that one. I've been bleating for ages about more driver/rider training, here in mexico we should all get advanced rider training as we're being taxed for our safety anyways.

As for P platers, let em do an advanced driving course, let them lose control of a vehicle on a skid pan with notihng around to hit, shit like that, let them see the impact of a vehicle at 100 vs 60kmh or some such thing, surely if you wanna rediuce the road toll then better education has gotta help.....

Marty, ffs don't start logical arguments, they don't win votes!!!! And that's the bottom line!!!!

yeah i was lucky i had an old airsrip to go play on, taught me how a vehicle would react to certain inputs

i spent some time in the US and i know in GA you dont need a licensed driver with you on your learners, you just drive but you cant carry passengers.
they have compulsory drivers ed at school and are shown some pretty horrific videos during the process, per capita there percentages are a lot less for accidents with learners and provisional lisence then here, once again showing education works oh and did i mention they can get there learners a lot earlier than here too, if i remember correctly my cousin got his l's at 15 in Dekalb county GA

Ah, yes. Speed kills, longer sentences/bigger fines deter more people from being naughty, mandatory sentences stop magistrates and judges from being soft and "three strikes" = mandatory time inside takes dangerous repeat offenders of the streets.

It's largely bullshit, but it seems logical. Problem is, people don't respond to logical arguments, they respond to emotion, which very much overrides logic. Welcome to the wonderful world of politics and media manipulation - and if you can make a handy dollar of two out of enforcement, so much the better.

Blaming the road toll on poor training, crap roads and inconsistent law enforcement means someone has to do something about those things, and that costs money. Blaming it on the so-called irresponsible speeding driver puts the onus back on the punter and provides an opportunity to get some revenue. It doesn't get much better than that in politics.