Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

WOW. This thread has had every 2 bits thrown in. But all in all its really up to Kristy. If Kristy wants the bike, I say go for it.I've always learn the hard way in life... so if you want it buy it...


Good luck with what ever decision you make Kristy

Strika wrote:

Stretchy wrote:Its the same old arguments as Guns. Its not the Gun/Bike that kills someone its the person in control of it.
If you have enough confidence to trust yourself to control your actions on a partiular bike then go for it.
My first bike was an R1 and i was a fast learner and progressed quicker than most. I have always felt comfortable on two wheels so it was just a matter of getting the basics. I am still learning everyday i ride though but for me its all about better control and faster lap times as i no longer have a road bike only a racebike.

Having said that though there is nothing wrong with learning on smaller bikes, i just dont think its a neccesity as everyone has different capabilities and confidence.

I dont know if its the right choice for this person though but some people seem to argue the point because they have been brainwashed it to the fact you have to start on a smaller bike which will make you a better rider which isnt true.

And there are a lot of woman who can ride fast and more controlled than some blokes so that isnt part of the issue either.

Do you mind if I ask If this is an opinion or based on some other information? The reason I ask, is that I hold an opposite opinion! Mine is just an opinion though, not based on any other thing than my own experiences.

It is mostly my opinion, i did miss a word in there though. Starting on a smaller bike doesnt ALWAYS make you a better rider but starting on a smaller bike seems to be everyones answer to making better riders. Not Always the case.

Strika wrote:Back in the late eighties and early 90's when 600's were significantly lighter than the litre bikes, I could understand the argument, however these days, they weigh about the same, and 600's these days put more HP to the ground than the Old litre bikes did!!! Yeah sure modern litre sports bikes have massive amounts of torque and horsepower on tap, but it's easily controlled and the deliveries are very linear, unlike some of the peaky creations of the past.

Get what ya want in my opinion, just be a little rational and measured in how you use it!

+1. I have been riding on 04 R1 of late which is not that different in size/weight/feel than the GSXR600. A lot more power but not unmanageably so.

Thank you to all those who have taken the time to give me their opinions. I have carefuly considered all of them, even I-K's . What ever bike I end up with, and it will be a Kawasaki, I can't wait to ride it along side you guys some time.

Thats a great response to a thread with *everything* !! Good luck on whatever it is that you end up buying.

I know some people on this very forum who have jumped straigh from a 250 to a 1200 !! no names no pack drill......

Kristy wrote:Thank you to all those who have taken the time to give me their opinions. I have carefuly considered all of them, even I-K's . What ever bike I end up with, and it will be a Kawasaki, I can't wait to ride it along side you guys some time.

dont think that ppl like myself, I-k and a few others who werent so supportive of the jump are just being assholes... as guys who have been riding, around riders for a long time we have heard/seen this sort of thing many times... its more about our opinion on what is going tob best for u, ur freinds and ur family!!

ultimately it is ur decision... but at least think abt it b4 u jump str8 in!!

neway i gotta go repack..time to fly in 4 hrs!!

Stretchy wrote:It is mostly my opinion, i did miss a word in there though. Starting on a smaller bike doesnt ALWAYS make you a better rider but starting on a smaller bike seems to be everyones answer to making better riders. Not Always the case.

Since the overwhelming majority of people don't bring a level of innate or otherwise-learned athleticism with them when they first take up riding, your "not always" really means "except in very few select cases..."

In the nine years I've been riding, I would've seen *hundreds* of n00bs come through, with plenty of them opting to either start out on a big bike, or upgrade to one within weeks or months. The few who could actually handle it, get some speed out of a big bike straight off the bat and not end up in a ditch the first time the bike decides to step a wheel out of line, have conformed to one or both of the following:

1. Years of motocross, dirt track, karting, 4WD or similar, so the brain circuitry for handling a powered vehicle at speed is already there.
2. A lot of some kind of physically-demanding or fuck-up-and-you're-dead sport... DH-MTB, freestyle BMX, martial arts, rock-climbing, double-black snowboarding, wakeboarding etc, which gives them the required reflexes, co-ordination, tolerance for adrenaline and general fitness.

My inner psychoanalyst would be really keen to see how that fits in with your own story?

I don't think I've *ever* seen a "normal" person, one who'd never had a pastime which could get them killed before, take up bikes and make a decent fist of it without a lengthy learning curve. That's why putting in time on a small bike should be the default solution for anyone coming into riding.

I-K wrote:

Stretchy wrote:It is mostly my opinion, i did miss a word in there though. Starting on a smaller bike doesnt ALWAYS make you a better rider but starting on a smaller bike seems to be everyones answer to making better riders. Not Always the case.

Since the overwhelming majority of people don't bring a level of innate or otherwise-learned athleticism with them when they first take up riding, your "not always" really means "except in very few select cases..."

In the nine years I've been riding, I would've seen *hundreds* of n00bs come through, with plenty of them opting to either start out on a big bike, or upgrade to one within weeks or months. The few who could actually handle it, get some speed out of a big bike straight off the bat and not end up in a ditch the first time the bike decides to step a wheel out of line, have conformed to one or both of the following:

1. Years of motocross, dirt track, karting, 4WD or similar, so the brain circuitry for handling a powered vehicle at speed is already there.
2. A lot of some kind of physically-demanding or fuck-up-and-you're-dead sport... DH-MTB, freestyle BMX, martial arts, rock-climbing, double-black snowboarding, wakeboarding etc, which gives them the required reflexes, co-ordination, tolerance for adrenaline and general fitness.

My inner psychoanalyst would be really keen to see how that fits in with your own story?

I don't think I've *ever* seen a "normal" person, one who'd never had a pastime which could get them killed before, take up bikes and make a decent fist of it without a lengthy learning curve. That's why putting in time on a small bike should be the default solution for anyone coming into riding.

I have always felt comfortable on two wheels and have ridden BMX, MTB and dirtbikes in small amounts in years gone by but never took them on seriously like sportsbikes because of my size, 6'6". I did start on sportsbikes late at 28 which may also have something to do with it.

Where people start is up to them and for some small bikes is the answer but not all need to start there is all i am trying to say. Just seems like everyone beleives that starting on a small bike is the way to go but i dont beleive its 100% true.

Stretchy wrote:I have always felt comfortable on two wheels and have ridden BMX, MTB and dirtbikes in small amounts in years gone by but never took them on seriously like sportsbikes because of my size, 6'6". I did start on sportsbikes late at 28 which may also have something to do with it.

What about the rest of what I bring up? Sport and active pastimes? Hell, have you put in any time in the Defence Forces? Apart from dabbling in pushbikes and dirtbikes, you haven't spent the rest of your life prior to getting into bikes being a couch potato, right?

Where people start is up to them and for some small bikes is the answer but not all need to start there is all i am trying to say. Just seems like everyone beleives that starting on a small bike is the way to go but i dont beleive its 100% true.

Again, your own individual experience of being able to jump onto a fast bike and make it work right off the bat would be in an overwhelming, almost vanishingly-small minority. It's just not the case that a significant proportion of people who get into bikes bring that level of innate talent with them.

If you got 1,000 people together who all wanted to take up guitar, how many of them would end up able to play like Tom Morello within a short period of time? Same thing with bikes, or anything else...

I think it's very safe to say that some people are partiularly uncomfortable on a small bike. A friend of mine was very timid on his 250cc. He loved riding it but was quite scared to go too fast and leaning and cornering were very difficult for him. I'm not saying that this is the rule, probably more the exception to it, but he came off his restrictions and bought a Blackbird (a fairly tame bike I know but still big and heavy). All of a sudden he is much more confident due to the trust he has in his heavier bike which is more responsive and planted. His riding and confidence has improved immensly, in a very short time. Now he reccomends a heavier bike to anyone.

Kristy wrote:I think it's very safe to say that some people are partiularly uncomfortable on a small bike. A friend of mine was very timid on his 250cc. He loved riding it but was quite scared to go too fast and leaning and cornering were very difficult for him. I'm not saying that this is the rule, probably more the exception to it,

Seeing how the Blackbird is a contender for the Worst-Chassis-Tune-in-Recent-Memory award, with one of the most uncommunicative front ends around, there's something strange going on there. More information required.

Now he reccomends a heavier bike to anyone.

...and, in doing so, he commits the error of projecting that the highly unconventional approach which, in his own opinion, worked for him, could work for anyone.

YOU just don't seem to get the individuality involved in riding. I believe that there is a rider for every bike and a bike for every rider. The bird is what is right for Steve, simple.

I-K wrote: I don't think I've *ever* seen a "normal" person, one who'd never had a pastime which could get them killed before, take up bikes and make a decent fist of it without a lengthy learning curve. That's why putting in time on a small bike should be the default solution for anyone coming into riding.

*buzzer noise* bbbbrrrrrr.

Now I'm gonna sound mega up myself here... but here goes.

After riding for 6 months I upgraded to my VFR and straight away went on a couple of rides with so called 'seasoned riders' (Ducati Canbrah club, some cousins mates, OCAU etc) and kept up and in some cases led the pack on some fairly spirited rides.

Even on my ZZR 250 I got stuck into it pretty hard when I first got it, bottoming the centre stand going up the clyde and having it spark up was dangerous but hella fun

However this can come down to two things, the people I was riding with were ordinary riders (most likely), the VFR was forgiving (yeah it was, but also made riding rough roads an arse puckering adventure) but more than anything I think what really helped me was riding nonstop every day for the first couple of years and racking up mega kays in all conditions and as gos said previously, incrementally improving in areas youre lacking.

But IK you've been riding with me and know what my speed is like, im probably a bit quicker than average on the road but wouldnt say fast - but my dirt bike experience was about 15 years ago and minimal at that.

I know quite a few quick(ish) riders out there with not much experience who havent had any dirt experience and their most adrenaline inducing pastime was running through magpie infested parklands on the way to school during swooping season.

Now before the flaming starts, Im not saying im a fast rider - but I feel I am quicker than the average rider (that ive been riding with anyway). I think most of it comes down to riding a lot in all conditions and not pushing myself to the point of feeling uneasy.

Oh and to the OP - dont get a 10 just yet. They are overkill for the road (and thats why I ruv them)

Kristy wrote:YOU just don't seem to get the individuality involved in riding.

That's your misinterpretation, and you're welcome to it.

I believe that there is a rider for every bike and a bike for every rider. The bird is what is right for Steve, simple.

No, it's not "simple". Riding is an analytical discipline (one of the very few things Keith Code's managed to succintly get across in his time). If a particular bike works or doesn't work for a particular rider, there are underlying reasons for it, and these reasons can, and need to, be analysed. Without understanding why something happens, how do you assess its validity and its plausibility, and, thus, its applicability, whether to the continuation of your own progression as a rider, or to others who are approaching your current status now?

For example, if it was the Blackbird's weight that put your mate in the zone, should other n00bs in his position consider GoldWings, since those things have 200kg more weight than a BlackBird. More weight must be more of a good thing, right?

Nucci wrote: I know quite a few quick(ish) riders out there with not much experience who havent had any dirt experience and their most adrenaline inducing pastime was running through magpie infested parklands on the way to school during swooping season.

Comming from South Australia originally, that comment could apply to me.......except I'm not a quickish rider (but I'm a bloody fast runner )
Regards Simon