Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

aardvark wrote:

Whickle wrote:This whole speed kill’s thing is getting funnier by the minute.

Speed does increase the risk of death in a crash, decreases the handling capabilities of a vehicle, lowers the reaction time required to perform simple actions such a braking, steering or accelerating. If you don’t understand these basic principles, you’re in trouble. Speeding increases the forces on the car and your body should you hit something and decrease the time taken to hit something. There is no such thing as "safe speeding". It’s just not that simple. Speed just increases the risk. So in slowing down, you reduce the risks should you be involved in an accident. Reduce speed = Decreased risk of having an accident = Reduced severity of injury; reduces the risk of death from injuries sustained in an accident.

As for Clay's mentality towards the Government, I strongly suggest that he gets into a policy area of government and see what it takes to change the simplest of things, let alone laws. You may then understand the reasons why things are the way they are. The population’s mentality is what needs to change. Compliance with the law would be a good start.

The police are not raising revenue, they are enforcing the law. A single speeding offence does not warrant time behind bars. For that reason, a monetary fine is placed on the offence, along with a points system on your licence as the deterrent. So, the faster you go, the higher the fine/more points you loose. Reach the points limit, you loose your licence. Police simply issue an infringement when you break the law.

So, the whole “slow down” message is actually a fair statement. It’s basically telling you to obey the law. What’s so hard to fathom about that?

Oh, it’s obviously working, you’re noticing it.

I couldn't have put it better myself, although I have tried. I'm not sure what Clay has had to say on the matter this time around as he is on my ignore list, but hopefully he takes something away from your post.

That's a great post Whicks !!! and Aardie, I doubt very much that old mate will take *anything* away from that info, he has far too much subjective hatred of the law and law enforcement to really have any understanding beyond the * Pigs Are Bad / I Hate All PIgs* mentality.

Excellent post Whickle - where'd you copy that from?

Whickle wrote: ... So in slowing down, you reduce the risks should you be involved in an accident. Reduce speed = Decreased risk of having an accident = Reduced severity of injury; reduces the risk of death from injuries sustained in an accident....

You know what annoys me the most about this? Its becoming more and more obvious that the assumption is that I WILL crash. Its gone beyond if and become when. So why don't we just ban motor vehicles altogether?

The population’s mentality is what needs to change. Compliance with the law would be a good start.

Just what Australia needs. More sheep. The mentality is changing. The population is becoming stupider by the minute. But that's ok ... as long as they aren't speeding.

So, the whole “slow down” message is actually a fair statement. It’s basically telling you to obey the law. What’s so hard to fathom about that?

Are you serious? Once upon a time, a law that was so blatantly disregarded by so many people would have been discarded as a bad law, but the grubbyment has become addicted to the revenue it generates.

Daisy wrote:

Whickle wrote: ... So in slowing down, you reduce the risks should you be involved in an accident. Reduce speed = Decreased risk of having an accident = Reduced severity of injury; reduces the risk of death from injuries sustained in an accident....

You know what annoys me the most about this? Its becoming more and more obvious that the assumption is that I WILL crash. Its gone beyond if and become when. So why don't we just ban motor vehicles altogether?

The population’s mentality is what needs to change. Compliance with the law would be a good start.

Just what Australia needs. More sheep. The mentality is changing. The population is becoming stupider by the minute. But that's ok ... as long as they aren't speeding.

So, the whole “slow down” message is actually a fair statement. It’s basically telling you to obey the law. What’s so hard to fathom about that?

Are you serious? Once upon a time, a law that was so blatantly disregarded by so many people would have been discarded as a bad law, but the grubbyment has become addicted to the revenue it generates.

I love a good quote train.... FFS Daisy, settle down and look at what I’m saying. we're not saying that 1km over the limit will kill you. Nor that we should become sheep. So, get over it.

They tell you when you get your license, "speed, get caught, get fined. Do it too often, loose you license. Laws are in place to protect people and or control a situation. Not raise money for the government. see my previous post.

As for the slow down thing, back in the days of no speed limits, few fast cars didn’t do 200-300km/h. since cars have become more available to the masses, and faster, the need to limit speed reared its head. I’m going to call the speed limit an average. Sectors of roads have averages. These averages are determined by engineers unless other factors weigh in. E.g. school zones or pedestrian areas. The closer to the average the cars go, the lower number of times people need to pass, slow down or move out of the way. And that was just for cars going in the same direction. Now think about if you add 20 cars going at it in 2 directions.... Farq, i hav'nt even talked about lanes, lines and other shit on the roads... Thats more shit you have to deal with.

When people speed (Don’t stick to the average/speed limit) and need to avoid other cars by way of overtaking, slowing or swerving, they affect other vehicles. We see this all the time on the bikes. Cars pull out on us all the time as they can’t judge our speed, acceleration or breaking capabilities. The slower vehicle's driver concentrates on the faster vehicle rather than just doing the right thing and maintaining speed and direction. The fast vehicle is trying to slow, look for an out or an overtaking opportunity. This usually has to occur in a very short space of time. The faster your going, the less time you have. It gets worse when it’s happening at the same time in both directions. Most times, drivers can do all this without a drama. It’s the off time that an accident occurs. So by slowing down, and doing the average for the particular sector of road, you reduce the occurrence of sharp manoeuvres or sudden changes in speed. Giving you more time to react to something should it happen. The old wipe off 5 ad's in NSW were a great example of this.

Your speeding may not cause an accident, but it may cause others to do stupid things as a result. Somone else's speeding may affect you. So, the speed that this all occurs at, can dramatically affect the outcome.

(Increase speed over the average = increase the need to avoid slower vehicles) = greater risk of incidents.

It’s called risk mitigation. Reduced speed = Reduced risk = reduced number of incidents = Less deaths on our roads. It’s called OH&S in the workplace. Seems it is not the case on the roads.

Daisy, im not trying to have a personal attack at you on this, more so to even up the scales of reason. It seemed a pretty one sided discussion till i jumped into it.

Seriously people, instead of having a go at the system, find out why it is the way it is. You may just get a shock! Its there to protect you from yourself and others.

clay wrote:

zx6rider wrote:

clay wrote: .... appropriate restrictions on L/P drivers as well as riders. Better roads providing better conditions for riders and motorists. Ongoing license testing and driving proficiency....

Just to pull apart your comment and quote something from it...

The XR6 that crashed in Melbourne on the weekend a tragically killed 5 teenagers was driven by a probationary driver restricted to carrying one passenger, the road they were driving on is a very good wide road in great condition, he was driving to fast, and now he will never get the chance to participate in any ongoing license testing and driving proficiency training.

So does this mean your thinking is flawed? or is this an isolated case?

This thread could go on forever, as everybody has differing opinions on what could reduce the road toll. The one common thing we have here is that we all would like to see the road toll reduced, so if we all have this goal, then perhaps there is still hope for us all

I didn't say what I think the government should be doing in order to reduce collisions and fatalities on the road would've stopped this incident from occurring. I do believe that it would see a reduction in collisions and fatalities though.

Tougher restrictions, like I am referring to, would've meant this kid wouldn't have been behind the wheel of this vehicle. Tougher licensing testing probably would've meant this kid wouldn't have held a license in the first instance. Heavier police presence on the roads also may have helped in this situation too as only the driver would've been killed if the restrictions I think should be in place were enforced.

Such things as I've listed would go further in reducing collisions on the road than 'Speed Kills, Slow Down!' on the tv and radio. And more and more fines being issued.

not being pissed would have helped. little shit was .19

I get sick of all this bureaucratic crap we get forced onto us.......... I am not going to change the way I drive/ride because of this statistical bullshit......

Now that OH&S has surfaced in this thread we may as well wrap ourselves in cotton wool and not leave our homes FFS........ One person gets injured at work and forever after the other 99.99% of us have to alter the way we do things just incase we fuck up like that other idiot......... Gumbyment employees can push bureaucratic brain washing onto someone else......... I am done with this crap..........

Whickle wrote:This whole speed kill’s thing is getting funnier by the minute.

The police are not raising revenue, they are enforcing the law. A single speeding offence does not warrant time behind bars. For that reason, a monetary fine is placed on the offence, along with a points system on your licence as the deterrent.

Help me understand how a stationary police car ( with radar ), parked close-up behind a parked truck, in an industrial area street ( zoned at 50 kmh ), on a Sunday
I.e. minimal traffic and zero pedestrians... is helping to keep the streets safe for the rest of the populace. Absolutely blatant revenue collection IMO.

Hey Whickle, I like your work!

Whickle wrote:Do it too often, loose you license.

I was never TOLD any such thing mate!
When I got my license there was no such thing as a demerit system
You are right about the CONTROL thing though...that is definately their goal.
They want to control every facet of our lives.
Unless of course it suits them......then they will send us overseas when another country won't comply
and "THEY" will encourage all of us to KILL KILL KILL.
Legally any one of us can KILL or MAME anyone THEY tell us is the enemy.
Wake up ya'll and smell the shit you shovellin

smithy5 wrote:I get sick of all this bureaucratic crap we get forced onto us.......... I am not going to change the way I drive/ride because of this statistical bullshit......

Now that OH&S has surfaced in this thread we may as well wrap ourselves in cotton wool and not leave our homes FFS........ One person gets injured at work and forever after the other 99.99% of us have to alter the way we do things just incase we fuck up like that other idiot......... Gumbyment employees can push bureaucratic brain washing onto someone else......... I am done with this crap..........

I agree with you totally on the OH&S shit. But in some cases, its a good thing its there. Still just cause one person fucked up, shouldnt mean the rest have to wrap ourselves in cotton wool.

Im all for people doing what they plaese, but when you get caught for doing the wrong thing, knowing all the time while your doing it that its going to cost you if you get caught, you deserve the fine.

6maniac wrote: Help me understand how a stationary police car ( with radar ), parked close-up behind a parked truck, in an industrial area street ( zoned at 50 kmh ), on a Sunday
I.e. minimal traffic and zero pedestrians... is helping to keep the streets safe for the rest of the populace. Absolutely blatant revenue collection IMO.

Well, seing as you obviously went past at the speed limit, the Radar was wasting its time looking at you? Maybe the next car screaming around the bend had it coming? In country Vic, the 4WD police vehicles have radars fitted. So it appears all cop cars are revenue raisers.

Hmmm, when i was younger and less stupid then i am now, sundays was the best day to go to the industrial area and behave badly.... That may be why the cops now frequent those areas

Maybe Ardy could help me here, but i have never seen or heard of anyone being caught for doing the right thing! Im not perfect, hence why i have been caught once in the past for speeding.... Too bad it was in an area that is well known for speeding, and people getting caught... They have since fitted a fixed camera. Revenue raising or a permanant reminder to watch your speed?

Seiko, its a part of driving and a condition for want of a better word, that holding a license means that you are aware of the CURRENT road rules and will abide by them. Knowing full well that you can be fined and loose points off your license should you not abide by the law.

We live in a democracy, so go ahead, start your own party, go for the top job. Hell, ill even cheer for you along the way. once you in, ill live by the laws you create. Like a mother, the government does what they feel is best for the ones living under its roof. Many things the government does we dont agree with, we have the opertunity to change things. Most of the time, we let it ride and just complain about it. Who do we have to blame?

Whicks you are becoming quite the philosopher mate !!! Nice work...........

although I totally disagree with Smitty's whinge about OH&S. For fucks sake mate, if one of your apprentices dies because of an unsafe work practice, don't you think it makes sense to change that work practice so no other apprentices die ?? Going by your post, you would rather see people continue to die, than enjoy the most basic work right you have - the right to have a safe job !!!!

I better establish one thing right now - I am an OH&S professional, but still ride like a retard.........

Gosling1 wrote:Whicks you are becoming quite the philosopher mate !!! Nice work...........

please use small words i can understand

Gosling1 wrote:I better establish one thing right now - I am an OH&S professional, but still ride like a retard.........

QUOTE FOR TRUTH

Whickle wrote: FFS Daisy, settle down and look at what I’m saying. we're not saying that 1km over the limit will kill you. Nor that we should become sheep. So, get over it.

"Every K over is a killer" ring any bells? Last time I visited the speed camera state there were bloody great signs along the highway proclaiming that "Speed is the biggest killer on our roads." Someone sure as hell wants us to believe it.

They tell you when you get your license, "speed, get caught, get fined. Do it too often, loose you license. Laws are in place to protect people and or control a situation. Not raise money for the government. see my previous post.

You really aren't going to get far with this argument. The government makes money. Whether they designed it that way is irrelevant. The fact is, they don't appear to want to do anything about the road toll - except the thing that makes them money. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I'm not alone.

When people speed (Don’t stick to the average/speed limit) and need to avoid other cars by way of overtaking, slowing or swerving, they affect other vehicles. We see this all the time on the bikes. Cars pull out on us all the time as they can’t judge our speed, acceleration or breaking capabilities. The slower vehicle's driver concentrates on the faster vehicle rather than just doing the right thing and maintaining speed and direction. The fast vehicle is trying to slow, look for an out or an overtaking opportunity. This usually has to occur in a very short space of time. The faster your going, the less time you have. It gets worse when it’s happening at the same time in both directions. Most times, drivers can do all this without a drama. It’s the off time that an accident occurs. So by slowing down, and doing the average for the particular sector of road, you reduce the occurrence of sharp manoeuvres or sudden changes in speed. Giving you more time to react to something should it happen. The old wipe off 5 ad's in NSW were a great example of this.

Your speeding may not cause an accident, but it may cause others to do stupid things as a result. Somone else's speeding may affect you. So, the speed that this all occurs at, can dramatically affect the outcome.

(Increase speed over the average = increase the need to avoid slower vehicles) = greater risk of incidents.

It’s called risk mitigation. Reduced speed = Reduced risk = reduced number of incidents = Less deaths on our roads. It’s called OH&S in the workplace. Seems it is not the case on the roads.

While I don't disagree with this, the problem is that we are being force fed the slow down bullshit in the absence of any real attempts to address all the other factors that lead to crashes. If you keep lowering speed limits - and thats what will happen when the current ones don't magically solve the problem - nobody will go anywhere. Its past time we started dealing with dumbarses, pisstanks and lost tourists instead of simply trying to mitigate the damage they cause in their stupidity.

Daisy, im not trying to have a personal attack at you on this, more so to even up the scales of reason. It seemed a pretty one sided discussion till i jumped into it.

I've never taken it as a personal attack and it was certainly not a one sided discussion. In fact it doesn't only have two sides. We have those who believe that the gumbyment lies to us and is only interested in revenue. Those who actually believe that if we all drive slower everything will be rosy. Those who believe that the law must be obeyed, no matter how stupid it might be, those who think education is the key and those who think we should have more restrictions on P platers ...

Seriously people, instead of having a go at the system, find out why it is the way it is. You may just get a shock! Its there to protect you from yourself and others.

This is the nanny state, that wraps us in cotton wool and dumbs us down to the lowest common denominator.
Sorry. I won't drink the Kool-Aid

Gosling1 wrote:.......... although I totally disagree with Smitty's whinge about OH&S. For fucks sake mate, if one of your apprentices dies because of an unsafe work practice, don't you think it makes sense to change that work practice so no other apprentices die ??

That would depend on whether the unsafe practice was part of the job or if the particular apprentice just did something retarded.
Somebody put me in charge of OH&S once. We had a guy who got a chemical in his eyes because he mishandled it. If it had been up to me I'd have replaced him with one who was less of a liability, but instead I just changed the product.

i was an ohs rep at my previous employment. If someone injures themselves we made sure to fix things so the stupidest person in the place wouldn't be able to repeat the incident and either seriously injure themselves or end up dead. Maybe thats the goal with the speeding, has anyone given a thought to that? Maybe the general idea is not to create speed limits to trap those who believe they are competent to speed but more to control (and there are people out there who require controlling, just look at the road toll) the idiots that think they know what they're doing.

They have to start somewhere!

So, asking us to slow down is a start. There are many other more drastic things they could do.

While i dont agree totally with the slow down tactic, its a soft way of starting to deal with the issue. It will make a difference no matter what we think.

I personally think improving roads and driver education are important. We need to have speed limits and to have them enforced. Otherwise, no matter how good the roads are or well trained a driver rider is, people will just keep pushing the envelope.

There are many ways to skin a cat. So look at the more serious things the gumbyment could do to us if we dont follow the road rules.

Take vehicles, fine us and take our license.
Limit our vehicles power and speed capability.
Ban performance parts, remove and confiscate if fitted and not engineered.
Reduce our points for a license to 5 points total. (I know this would make many of us shiver)
Yearly certification on your license (Driving test, medical and knowledge)
Charge more for licenses, rego and insurance.
Increase the fines and points for offences.
Reduce speed limits further.

Many of these things mean following the rules would be of the utmost importance. Sadly tho, the importance of responsibility is not understood untill something bad occurs. Hell, we all partake in spirited riding. For most of us, thats the thrill of riding. But the Laws kinda remind us to take care. It wont stop us all, nor will it fix all the problems. Good roads, safer vehicles (new and old), better training and a greater respect for the roads could definately make the roads a lot safer IMO.

I feel the Gumbyment are doing an ok (Not great) job when it comes to getting the message out there to take care and be responsible when driving. Sadly, a lot more could be done.

What else do you all suggest the gumbyment do to stop people from reckless, unsafe driving, speeding and killing themselves or others??