Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

I was speaking to another person today, who recently read a paper about Scandanavia's efforts to reduce the road toll in country locations. Apparently they have installed 3 way roads on pretty much their entire rural road network. That is, A lane in each direction, plus an overtaking lane for one of those directions. They then have a WRB between the 2 lanes and the single lane and also at the edge of the road. The direction for the overtaking lane changes every so often. (quote from aardvark)


Yup! thats a good system,i've riden on a few stretches of high accident rural roads in Malaysia in which they built the 3 way roads and according to the locals it reduced the amount of accidents there but it's not implemented thru out the country,only on high accident prone areas.

aardvark wrote:This stops people from leaving the road and hitting trees and also prevents head ons. Alledgedly, they have reduced their road toll by some 90%!!

That can large;ly be attributed to Sweden's opoeration zero which has some great ideas (for Sweden). Bloke that came up withthe concept was in Oz about 6-12 onths ago or so, he's the one that thinks daytime runing lights on ALL vehicles are a sensational idea, the wrb down the dividing lane was also his idea, can probably hunt up a few more gory details if anyones seriously interested.

aardvark wrote:I know a lot of motorcyclists have concerns with regards to WRB's (myself included), but there is some ongoing testing with regards to that, and it seems that it may not be the problem many believe it to be.

Jase, you would have access to more offical sources than I but as best i'm aware certianly MUARC aren't doing anything re testing these things...

FWIW I have a copy of the DVD that they show on open days at Monash part of which includes WRB testing, when you se what happens to a car you really really don't want to hit one on a bike.

I've talked to people who drive cars here and the style of driving has changed a lot since 20yrs ago,it used to be more safer then cause most of the experience drivers will be more understanding to bikers cause they use to own or ride a bike before.

But now people are affluent and most or all of them don't ride and they get frustrated, jealous and even ignorant if some biker cut thru traffic,moves quicker or just having fun on their bikes.

I've driven cars,earth trucks,lorries and even 18 wheelers and roughly theres a lot involved in making the right driving decisions but at least i know i am still a biker and we are vulnerable.

So basically it's education for the ignorant, that's where the problem is rooted.As for the police attitude it never changed since i started riding it's just a revenue making dept,they do good things for us but it is misdirected,I am speaking on traffic law they implemented (used to be a cop once)

aardvark wrote:

Neka79 wrote:out of curiousity Aardy..that comparison u did with accident rate per capita...can u find germany?? the country with the autobahn (and apparently much nicer drivers) would be a nice comparisson...

In 2003 it was sitting at 8 per 100,000.

ok..so germany is on par with us, and sweden and sumone else (im sure it was euro or scandy country) is slightly better than us.....

well heres a bloody sensational idea..lets see what they are doing...compare it to what we are doing, and what the yanks for example are doing (as 1 of the highest rates) and see if we can implement things that actually work??

or would that be too sensible?

I have said it before, so why not again...

Speed cameras are proof speeding DOESN'T cause accidents.

The logic is simple.

The camera detects the vehicle speeding, takes a photo and lets you go on your merry way without any intervention or further action. If it really was as bad as they say, they'd have people out there to pull you over and stop you speeding. They don't.

But they can profit out of it, so they do.

Thing is, taking someones licence away from them, doesn't stop them driving. If they are happy to flout the law with regards to speeding, then they probably wont care about whether or not they have a licence.

People are usually happy to obey laws that make sense. And equally happy to disobey those they think unreasonable.

I suppose if this gets a few people to change their behaviour for 12 months, maybe it is a success. But then, maybe it wont make a scrap of difference to the road toll (which is my pick)...

ZBeast wrote: If speed is such a bad thing then why not fit GPS equipped speed limiters to every vehicle....new and old. Just have to plot the speed limit changes and the limiter takes care of the rest. Newer cars with traction control and abs could even slow you down when you get to a lower speed area.

Because computers are fallible. I'm not having a machine that can "stop thinking" controlling my car. Assistance - Yes, Controlling - No.

ZZRCHIKKY wrote:
i was tould when doing my learners course in tasmania that a motocycle could do at least twise the advised speed on corners . . .

In the car, I convert the advisory speed to MPH and work with that. On the bike..

Felix wrote:
The camera detects the vehicle speeding, takes a photo and lets you go on your merry way without any intervention or further action. If it really was as bad as they say, they'd have people out there to pull you over and stop you speeding. They don't.

Exactly. I get done by a speed camera, I don't slow down, and I only find out about it 3-4 weeks later. If I get pulled over, I slow down from there and then. (It might only be for the rest of the day, but hey, it's slowed me down!)

I don't have any answers, just my opinions. More driver training is needed. Discretion is a good thing by the Police. Speed camera's suck.

I can only see one good point about speed camera's. People are so busy looking for them that they're actually concentrating on something outside their car!

When we bring Germany, et al into the debate, we need to also consider the following...

In Germany, most people live and work in the same town. Travelling 40+km to work, as I do, is unthinkable. If you did, you probably use public transport...

zbeast wrote:If speed is such a bad thing then why not fit GPS equipped speed limiters to every vehicle....new and old. Just have to plot the speed limit changes and the limiter takes care of the rest.

Talked about this at an MRA meeting some 3 years ago or so, perhaps not quite that long ago, it's believed (not seen any hard evidence) that MUARC have created such a vehicle and it's driving around Melbourne's roads as we speak, put the foot down and you go no faster, gps speed limited.

For those wondering, MUARC = Monash Uni Accident Research Centre.

Has anybody read the article in the latest AMCN where a top level cop refutes the data saying 'SPEED KILLS!' is all wrong?

It goes on to state that any accident where a 'controller' is over the speed limit (be it proven or suggested) it goes down as a speeding accident. It does not take the road conditions, driver fatigue, driver experience or any other factors into consideration. It is all just a speed related accident.

Introduce compulsory driver/riding training/defensive courses as part of the licensing process.

Mitch wrote:Introduce compulsory driver/riding training/defensive courses as part of the licensing process.

And then you exacerbate the problem of overconfidence (but at least they'd be a little more skilled). The base problem is attitude, which is firmly rooted in culture. How to change that attitude would be the question in my opinion. It's certain that there are no quick fixes.