Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

fireyrob wrote:Better still let us all ride the 10 Mickwitchy then we can offer more advice

I'll be in that

fair enough ..if you increase leverage ratio you can maintain the same pressure with a larger bore ( you're just using a longer lever). All I'm saying is that a larger m/c with the same leverage ratio doesn't increase pressure. The problem as i see it is that it's easy for people to misinterpret larger bore = more pressure.

Tack wrote:fair enough ..if you increase leverage ratio you can maintain the same pressure with a larger bore ( you're just using a longer lever). All I'm saying is that a larger m/c with the same leverage ratio doesn't increase pressure. The problem as i see it is that it's easy for people to misinterpret larger bore = more pressure.

You might be right, but you'll never win Tack. Your confusing the issue with facts mate.......

you'reprobably right strika.

It's like what Bayliss said when he first started racing. He was sitting in the pits after the first race and everyone else was working on their bikes like maniacs. He and his best mate couldn't work out what they were all doing. They all thought the answer was in bike set up. He went out and beat most of them with ability. His set up advice...just ride the fucker.

Nothing bring out the best riding skills like a shit budget

Haha I'm loving this debate....and of course appreciating the info

Tack wrote:......if you increase leverage ratio you can maintain the same pressure with a larger bore ( you're just using a longer lever). All I'm saying is that a larger m/c with the same leverage ratio doesn't increase pressure. The problem as i see it is that it's easy for people to misinterpret larger bore = more pressure.....

I changed from a 14mm OEM m/c to a 19mm m/c. I now brake with far less effort and way more power.

How is this possible if what you say, has any validity ? Not looking to start WW3 but interested in your hydraulics background really

Doesnt this bloke just want an opinion on pads?

Mate just get brake pads. Theres no bad ones these days and unless your Valentino Rossi its 90% Placebo effect

Glen wrote:Doesnt this bloke just want an opinion on pads?

Mate just get brake pads. Theres no bad ones these days and unless your Valentino Rossi its 90% Placebo effect

yeh but the thread is pretty interesting........go back to Facebook and have a whinge there ya old kahn ........oh, hang on a minute !!

I would but I can't remember my account details. Too many bourbs at he Fingal Sporto

Fingal Sporto !! you lucky barstage......what a place to relax and have a bourb......

Glen wrote:I would but I can't remember my account details. Too many bourbs at he Fingal Sporto

Hey I have been spending may a weekend at Shoal Bay country club and the sporto's. Where the fark have you been?

I head there to sooth my current boat envy issues

Weve been up here every weekend. Having a ball its an awesome spot

You want to buy a boat? Im selling mine. Quintrex 590 Freedom Cruiser. Looking at becoming a wanker and getting a Jetski. We can launch them on the beach at Fingal

mmmm you know they make a super charged version of the ZX12R motor in a jet-ski ? Pulls 2 skiers and over 200hp at the pump

Gosling1 wrote: I changed from a 14mm OEM m/c to a 19mm m/c. I now brake with far less effort and way more power.

How is this possible if what you say, has any validity ? Not looking to start WW3 but interested in your hydraulics background really

That in itself doesn't make sense; in fact it's contrary to basic hydraulic principles. The question is really what other things were changed in the process, either knowingly or unknowingly. The leverage ratios of levers are very important to the whole equation as much as master cylinder area to caliper piston area is simply a ratio as well.

If you increase master cylinder size and then also increase the leverage ratio you get the same overall result or if the leverage ratio is higher you get hand pressure.
The brake lever on your bike is just that a "lever". If you put a really big master cylinder on, for example, a 1" bore, and you had a standard length brake lever you won't have the hand strength to stop the thing in a kilometre. But if you made the brake lever really, really long (probably ridiculously long) then by grabbing the end of the lever you would stop the thing as normal.
There’s an old saying I always liked about levers “ Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I’ll move the earth”

Anyway, if you don’t believe me here’s a few sites that say exactly the same thing.
This one is quite good because you can see the effect of m/c piston area to calliper area with the same lever ratio and the how a brembo has different ratios but giver the same overall result.
http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

And this one is from a forum that explains it very well (saves me writing it)
http://www.customfighters.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=56704

And this one which is about cars but gives and explanation about lever lengths
http://www.markwilliams.com/braketech.aspx

So you want to know about my hydraulics background. Ok, I’ll tell you but I prefer to stay pretty quiet so I don’t get in arguments.
I started out at 14 yo doing motorkhanas and autocrosses in car clubs then went rallying. Rallied many different makes and models of cars, ford cortinas, ford escort , datsun 1600, Mazda RX2 and RX7 and a ford laser 4wd turbo.
If you know anything about rallying, you’ll know that brake bias is very important especially rear bias to get the back end to move and set up for corners so I changed brake wheel cylinder sizes, converted drum to disc brakes, increased rear calliper sizes, installed hydraulic hand brakes, converted single piston calliper to 4 spots, made pedal boxes, changed brake pedal leverage ratios, made and fitted braided brake lines, made and fitted steel brake lines (ran them inside to stop rock damage) and changed master cylinder sizes in all those cars.
Mind you we built plenty of engines and even built our own roots type supercharger but that’s not hydraulic.
My father worked for an engineering company and we have a mill, lathe, tig mig arc oxy plus every type of metal making folding bending cutting grinding hole making piece of equipment on earth at home. We made hats for race discs, machined discs, converted discs, made pedal boxes with adjustable bias, fitted $2000 brembo calipers to cars etc etc
Anyway, I started out working for Pedders suspension when the head office was at wren rd moorabbin, where I made and rebuilt many types of hydraulic shock absorbers and dyno’d them. Did that for 5 years and then got a job with a motorsport tyre supplier due to my suspension knowledge and got to work with top level Australian race teams, international race teams , Japanese tyre designers and engineers including two years at the world supers at PI. Did that for 15 years and then went out on my own when V8’s went to a control tyre and they closed down the race department. Unfortunately I twice turned down offers to work overseas with bike teams because it was too risky a deal and i had commitments here but anyway, now i wish I had gone.

Spent the next 7 years working for myself working for different small race teams, building race cars for Targa, series production, Bathurst and club motorsport and eventually ended up here in Queensland working for a multi million dollar race team that believe it or not went bankrupt. So that was it.....I’d had enough and now I just take my ZX10R out to the track and enjoy going as fast I can with the ability that I have.
I dunno but I spent my life learning how to make things go fast, engines, tyres, brakes, aerodynamics and suspension. So that’s it.