Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

gray_rm wrote:Folk,
I think it's too late to arrange any sort of protest:
----------------------------------excerpt-------------------
Taking a toll: e-tag armbands for motorcyclists
By Malcolm Brown
June 4, 2005

Motorcyclists will no longer have to search for coins at toll booths.

They will be able to buy armband e-tags, allowing them to ride straight through tollgates on the new cross-city tunnel, to be opened on Sunday June 12.

Why should we have to pay extra costs for something that we don't want, just because they just don't want to address the problem in the first case?

Guys, turn on your TVs, it's on the News briefs as well...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Tak ... 56696.html
(Currently linked off the main page..)
No wonder they got a Harley rider to support it; they're too old to know better, and to slow to care...

Here is the MCC point of view on the arm band solution:

There is also the tunnel customer service centre details at the end!!!

Please note the date 3/6/04. Saw the article gray-rm posted on the internet, dated 4/06/05. Makes you wonder, technology sure does go fast these days Can I see the posts I'll write tomorrow?

MOTORCYCLE COUNCIL OF NSW
3-6-05

The Cross City Tunnel today launched their "solution" to motorcycles and
E-tags.

We do not endorse the armband.

The armband is dangerous

The MCC of NSW trialled an armband around three years ago, when working with
the RTA to find a solution to the problem.

The armband is fitted to the riders upper arm, between the armour pieces
covering shoulder and elbow, if a fully kitted motorcycle jacket is worn.

This presents a "point" impact in a fall.
Motorcycle protective clothing is very poor at protection from broken bones
in such a fall

The armband effectively defeats the purpose of a protective jacket with
armour

We have enough trouble explaining to riders to NOT put their mobile 'phone
in their pocket and still receive a steady stream of reports of riders
having very minor falls and breaking ribs.

The E-tag itself shatters on impact and breaks into shards capable of
inflicting grievous deep cuts.

Motorcycle protective clothing has limited ability in cut resistance - one
of the features we are encouraging makers to include through the MCC of NSW
protective clothing program.

The second and more significant issue is that the pouch on the armband moves
under wind pressure, as is experienced in normal riding. This causes the
pouch to rotate around the arm and interfere with the riders arm movement,
limiting control of the motorcycle in manoevering, such as changing lanes.

Doing the armband up tightly, cause numbness of the hand, affecting ability
to use the frint brake, the most important one on a motorcycle.

A rider will always seek to mitigate a known risk and hence, informed riders
put the mobile in their motorcycle luggage compartment.

This solution is demanding that riders compromise their safety

A solution not advetrtised by the Cross City Motorway ( CCM )is that they
have agreed to dispense with "administrative fees" associated with
photo-recognition of numberplates. If a rider has an E-tag account, there is
no need to carry the E-tag at all, as the photo-ID system will identify the
numberplate and deduct the toll from the appropriate account.

However, this costs the CCM to operate the equipment. So they are promoting
the arm band to save them money

There is no need for a rider to carry the E-tag, except that it costs CCM to
administer the charge.

So CCM is happy to compromise rider safety in order to increase their
profit.


In a press release this morning, the CCM announced it had "developed" this
solution and appears to have duped a number of riders into endorsing the
product following an invitation to "come and have a look at it" and lots of
spin-doctoring to the small audience. The CCM has ambushed these riders and
is purporting by implication that they represent the views of ALL riders.

Simply put, the E-tag is unsuitable for motorcycles and are goods not fit
for the purpose sold.

The armband is just plain dangerous.


Ring them, or newspapers, or radio stations and express your views - details
below


Guy Stanford
Chairman
Motorcycle Council of NSW

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cross City Motorway website
http://www.crosscity.com.au/Default.asp
General Customer Service

Should you have any queries on your toll account, registering to use the
Cross City Tunnel, or you wish to lodge a complaint, you may write to us at
the following address:

Customer Service Centre
Beep Solutions,
Locked Bag 8500, Potts Point NSW 1335.

You may also contact our Customer Service Centre by email
support@crosscity.com.au or call (02) 90 333 999 (local call costs apply)
during the hours of 8am and 8pm Monday to Friday or 8am and 12pm Saturday.

Frozzie,
You must know of - or be aligned with - the MCCNSW... what is their take on the latest announcement?

Yep unfortunatly the armband has already hit the press... cross-city already beefing up their public support.

A way of demonstrating/educating non-riders (and apparently some riders) the dangers of such arm bands would be good.

Also the publicity of the armbands does not directly address of the issues against etags for bikes. They don't say "impact tested against breaking into shards" or anything along those lines.
Thus; the purpose of the article is ONLY to make non-riders support cross-city and tolls in general.

They grab a Harley guy and a couple of average-joe commuters because they're most easily recognisable by the non-riding public.
No mention of the fact that all the people quoted in that article probably wear open faced helmets and have never attended rider training of any kind.


If we handle the protest intelligently I'm sure we'll have a good chance.

There's lots of things we can do; this is (should be) the biggest gathering of bikes in Sydney for a long time, and we will (should) have people coming from all directions.
Plus there will be lots of media coverage because of the tunnel opening.

Therefore, it's a perfect chance to demonstrate that we are good people and do care about safety, logic, etc.

Frozzie, I'll ask you to bring this up with MCC (I'm unable to make any of the meetings) - I propose we (all riders) do our best to exercise extra extra extra good road-craft from now until the protest.
Esspecially the day of the protest; all day.
Wave people in trying to merge.
Don't bother blurting through the traffic like a mad-man; coz you can always lane split to the front at the next lights anyway.
I think it'd be a good idea to still lane-split. Just really really carefuly.
I've hit 2 mirrors (heaps slowly, but still) in the last month and I'm damn pissed at myself coz who-knows who the cagers could've been...

All it takes is for one rider to cut in front of a newspaper journalist and it's all over for us.

The facts that will get the public behind us are:

Bikes are at most 1/4 the weight of a small car.
Bikes use at most 70% the fuel of a small car.
Bikes exert FAR less wear on the road as they move around the road spreading wear evenly.
Bikes do not contribute to excessive road wear (such as pot-holes and corrigations) at all since they can (and will) avoid such damage on the road surface.
Bikes flow through traffic much smoother than cars (less clutch/brake/accelerate delay) when moving through dense traffic, can avoid obstacles (broken down cars, parking cars, etc) with less delay than cars, can (and usually do) corner at more consistant speeds.

Also statisticly bikers are more alert and have quicker and more appropriate responses than cagers; but there's no point even trying to argue that, hahaha.

gray_rm wrote:Frozzie,
You must know of - or be aligned with - the MCCNSW... what is their take on the latest announcement?

Thanks for that last one Frozzie, interesting... and quick.

I can't make the meetings either, but I work for the MCC in some obscure areas (dreaming up action days is one, research is another) therefore I can pass it on to the chairman, who will certainly put it to the members present.

I excercise due care most of the time, only lane splitting at the lights and never traveling on the emergency lanes.

The take on the last announcement is that the MCC have already trialled the arm band and rejected it. THE ARM BAND IS NOT A SOLUTION.

So far CCM have only added fuel to our fire, so looks like we're going to have a busy Sunday next week.

Cool thanks Froz.
What is the realistic coverage of the MCC's stuff?
I'm always talking to riders who no nothing about it, or at least don't pay any attention.
Maybe they think it is a government organisation trying to ruin their fun, haha.

I'm at Oran Park on saturday so I'll chat to people there, then at Mt White on Sunday. I'm sure everyone there will know about it, but I'll get max to drop a reminder to customers.

The MCC message should be relayed by each bike club in NSW. When you are a member of a bike club, you are also member of the MCC of NSW. Members like me are happy to pass the message on.

We are currently working on a structure that will be applicable at State and National level, we need to be well organised, it takes a bit of time to make sure we get things right.

The problem is that Australia does not have a good history of biker mobilisation, we are hoping to have a good turn out on this one. So the MCC is counting on each individual effort to make this a success.

Say hello to Max at Mt White, he should already be aware of the action and would have already set something up I believe. Remind him if he's forgotten, although I doubt the guys from ORS would have missed spreading the word up there!

I'm frantically trying to reschedule things so that I can make it.

Answer from Guy regarding the riding behaviour during the week: "We as riders should ride couteously at all times, this week being no exception!!!"

Good stuff Froz
That's a valid point from Guy and I'm sure most riders here would ride great 24/7; but we all know heaps of people don't and we'd have trouble convincing them to change their ways... unless it's for a short time and might improve their motorbikin' future

I suppose MCC can't really set a precendent like that though. Fair enough

Any news regarding Sunday?

I've heard a rumour that it's been put off as the CCT is behind schedule so a protest ride isn't possible - not 100% sure on that though.

In a similar vein - the following snaffled from oroadsports....

!!!NEWSFLASH!!!

Please mark Sunday 26th of June 2005 (26/06/05) in your diaries! This is important!

I've just come back from a (very long) Motorcycle Council of NSW (MCCNSW) meeting and here is a report on the outcome of tonight's meeting.
The MCCNSW recently met with Michael Costa (NSW Minister for Roads). The meeting with Mr Costa was favourable with Mr Costa verbally agreeing (nothing has been written and signed as yet) that motorcycles should be paying a reduced fee for using tollways. However, a method of charging motorcycle tolls other than the use of e-tags (and armband which has been proven unsafe) has not yet been determined. One option is to take the tolls from a portion of motorcycle registration and allowing motorcycles to travel through tollways an unlimited number of times without any charge (including administation fees). The MCCNSW will be meeting with the 4/5 different toll operators soon to come up with a safe and effective method for motorcycles to pay toll without incurring any extra administration fees. If, and only if, there is no positive outcome from the meeting with the toll operators, a protest will be held on Sunday 26th of June 2005 (as detailed below).

IF talks with the toll operators do not achieve anything positive for motorcyclists, a series of protest will be held. The first of the series of protests, on Sunday 26th of June, will consist of 500 motorcycles. The week after we will increase the number of motorcycles to 1000. The week after that we will further increase the number of motorcycles and will continue to do so each week until motorcycle tolls are reduced to a quarter of car tolls AND a safe method for motorcycles to pay tolls is agreed upon without incurring extra administration fees.
On Sunday 26th of June, the 500 motorcycles will gather at Hickson Road, The Rocks at 11am. The motorcycles will then proceed north to slowly cross the Harbour Bridge (this may be done in progressively larger groups on the day. More details to come.) 50 motorcycles from the group of 500 will then turn around and head south on the Harbour Bridge to pay the toll. The remaining 450 motorcycles can head home or to Road Warriors or wherever until the next Sunday. Once the group of 50 motorcycles reach the toll plaza, each individual motorcylist will proceed to pay the toll with a $20/$50 note and cause a bottleneck at the toll plaza. The toll paying process should take at least 1 minute for each motorcyclist because you will need to disembark your vehicle, take off your gloves, search your pockets for change, find that you don't have enough change, open up your luggage, take out your wallet, hand the cashier a $20/$50 note, accept the change, put it in your wallet/pocket, put your wallet back in your luggage, put your helmet/gloves back on, get back on your vehicle....etc etc. It is suggested that everyone practises this at home and time yourself to ensure you take at least 1 minute to go through the whole process. Each week there will be progressively more motorcycles in the protest and more motorcycles paying the toll/blocking the toll plaza. This will continue each Sunday until the Government and the toll operators get the message that we are trying to put across, which is:

Why are we protesting?
1. Motorcycles should not have to pay the same toll rate as a car (ideally, we would prefer not to pay any tolls at all however we must be realistic in our negotiations)
2. Planners continually forget to include motorcyclists when it comes to road/toll designs and we are then forced to pay for their mistakes with the extra administration fees charged for vehicles without e-tags (which can not be used safely on motorcycles).

For this protest to work and send out an effective message to the Government, toll operators and the general public, it will need to be executed with military precision. The protest will take place in an organised, ordely, responsible and safe manner. There will be no chaos. We do not want to be seen as a bunch of rebels/hooligans. There will be marshalls in safety vests stationed along the protest route directing traffic.


For this to work, we need numbers. We need every rider in NSW to be committed. Do not say "Yes I want to protest!" and then not turn up on the day when you're needed the most. Your small sacrifice now will ensure that motorcyclists will be seen as a force to be reckon with in the long term.

There will be no need to print leaflets for distribution. This will be done by the MCCNSW to ensure the correct message and wording is published and done so professionally.

Further details from MCCNSW will be available within 24 hours. I will post up the official word from MCCNSW as soon as I receive them. I will also post a thread in the Club Event forum soon.

If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please see myself or any one of the ORS managers at a coffee night or send us a PM (ORS managers will be briefed at a meeting on Wednesday night).

More info on the toll issue available on the MCCNSW website: http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/31.html

ty

Thank Ty.