Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Problem is there is not one simple solution - Firstly if you increase the licencing requirements so that all road users are higher skilled the resulting problem is less people who can make the grade. Now to most this will take the numpties off the road so the road toll will reduce. Not necessarily so as it is more about attitudes to driving then actual driving ability that affects the road toll (will come to that part later). So lets say the numpties are off the road as they can no longer pass the test (off course everyone here is infallible so will have passed with flying colours ) for those who didn't pass they are now in a bit of a problem, they can't drive so they can't get to work and will have to catch public transport, oh that's right because we continue urban sprawl without infrastructure public transport is extremely inefficient. More problems with less licence holders include - Less people buying petrol = less tax, less licence holders = less people registering cars = less tax, less licence holders = less cars, car industry fucked. People out of work rely on welfare and public transport which costs money. In short it will initially cost more.

All of the suggestions are good - higher road speeds, increased licencing testing, better roads. Problem is you can not make such changes overnight. It has to take a generation to do so and we don't have the forsight on the intestinal fortitude.

Now to driver attitudes - We all seem to believe that the problem is with other road users and not us speeding as we are all capable of handling a vehicle at greater speeds. Have you ever thought that perhaps other road users are not capable of judging your higher speed and think that you are traveling at the speed limit. There was some research done (I will find it) that showed that the majority of road users believe they are far better then they actually are and drive at a higher risk level. To take it a step further motor bike riders are in particular the people who take higher risks just by riding a bike so we fall into this category.

For the record I do occasionally exceed the speed limit and I also believe I am an above average road user

Nick

now, there is one more thing..... there is always one more

I had wondered about that one long before mobile phones became extentions of our hands.

Truckies and their CB radios, what's the go there?? Large trucks, semis and road trains zipping down the road with Bob in the seat who had just done a return trip from SYD - BNE - SYD having a chat to his mate over the CB.

Have you ever heard of a truckie pulled over and fined and lost points for that?
Is it even a law, that you can't use one of them, while driving?

They are allowed to use their cb's while driving if it's "work related"
They usually do it while smoking and drinking a beer

seiko1 wrote:They are allowed to use their cb's while driving if it's "work related"

Not that I condone the use of any hand held device but Truck Drivers generally have a hell of allot more training than the average cager & similar to a motorcyclist should be more aware of their surroundings because of what is at stake, they fuck up & chances are its in a big way. I have been in a mates B double for -29 hrs & witnessed what truckies have to put up with, just in that small period of time what I saw has totally changed my perception of what a professional truck driver has to go through, & talking on their CB is the least of their worries.

esp when some moron cuts them off at a set of lights. I'm a fan of seeing people driving have the kids in the back a friend in the front and they get right into the conversation to the point where they have to use hand gestures and throwing hands around to the point where they talk through there hands.

Ah, "Italian hands"!

Appreciate your honesty Nick :

quote : "For the record I do occasionally exceed the speed limit and I also believe I am an above average road user"

me too mate, the occasions are when I drive or ride

I would never use a mobile phone without a handsfree while driving or riding. I couldn't concentrate on reading AMCN, playing computer Solitaire on my PDA, talking with a phone to my ear and concentrate on backing it into the next turn all at once. I might have to shut Solitaire down midgame!!

a couple of not very well artriculated points i'd like to drop in here to add to the entertainment

1) when the roads are perfect and the barriers are all set...........will there be any roads worth riding, DOUBTFUL think of your favourite winding country roads ... Victoria already has gone mad on steel and WIRE barriers (they're breeding like rabbits)...double and solid white lines where once you could overtake using DUE CAUTION and lowering speed limits to ridiculous and varying levels in some areas.

2) now we are all above average drivers/riders since we have years of experience and most very little actual training, thinks back to obtaining licence some decades prior......we all scream make them do more training...on this nick put forward some quite valid points. No i am not against better training but it obviously has to be at a cost that does not exclude people due to income...that's a hard one.

3) the phone as distraction ...yes it pisses me off to watch and on occassions avoid people texting /talking on a phone...but as philbo points out there are hundreds of distractions while driving ...oops dropped that sandwich, and now i'm on the wrong side of the road....discussion with other occupants/hands free phone and worst of all KIDS little darlings guess you all have angels as no one puts them up as a distraction so far .......now a few of you have them and some even G/KIDS ......had a few myself and if that wasn't a distraction no matter how short the drive i don't know what is and that's when they were BEHAVING!!!!

4)be alert....

5)ride safe ..all the best for the new year

now where's my AMCN gonna try reading it while riding

Interesting thread............

Depends on which statistics you look at at, which side of the arguement the statistics are supplied and then add the spin that usually gets added in and who knows if you are more likely to be involved in an accident or injured or killed on the roads today moreso than previously

One thing I am sure of is that we have never been more policed, advised cameras, hidden cameras, red light cameras, speed traps, heavier fines etc, etc, etc than ever before and it isn't working..................

I have been driving heavy vehicles (interstate & local) for years and spend all day every day on the road. I break the road rules including speeding every day. I have not been involved in an accident for 20 years and have been booked twice in the past 15 years........ (speed up to 15 klm car) (red light camera truck)

I believe the best way to reduce the road toll and accidents is common sense and experience. Unfortunately common sense isn't that common and experience only comes with 20 or 30 years behind the wheel, so i don't have an answer for anyone under 40......... Perhaps teaching kids to drive (off the road) in primary school might give them the experience earlier.... I know at lot of bike riders started in the dirt at 4, 6 or 8 years of age, by the time they got to 17, they could handle a bike and just needed to get used to the road rules and traffic etc. one option maybe.....

my 2 cents.....

What can you do?
lower speed limits,more speed humps, more this more that
just about every road where i live Richmond(melb) there are speed traps and humps on every bit of road that goes for more then 100m, and people still die. 30 years ago , yes im 17, but as my uncle says, they had none of this crap and a lower road toll.
go figure
Personally think people caught using mobile phones in cars should have them confiscated and destroyed on the spot. lol

my 2c;
make obtaining the license a little more difficult (through fees and training), and hopefully more valuable to the individual.

1. increase licensing fees.
i'd like to think this would push more people toward public transport and therefore the additional funds result in improvements on that front as well as freeing up the roads.

2. make the "practical" driving exams harder (e.g cone weave on a wet skidpan)
bring in the scenarios which take lives, and how to deal with them. so that the first time a driver experiences really losing control of a vehicle, they don't end up dead.

if getting a license was harder to do, i think people would work harder to avoid losing it.

Smithy5 I would contend that experience does not necessarily equal ability and I think this is one of the problems we face. We older ones like to believe that because we are more experienced we know better and yes you could say that in a lot of instances this is true it is certainly not always the case. EG taxi drivers - some have the worst habits but would be some of the most experienced drivers in Australia. You mentioned you are truckie, so you would know better then most the changes to the heavy vehicle industry over the last 20 years including speed limited trucks, lower speed limits, tougher rules on log books and the amount of time you can drive for in 24 hours. You would also note that there has been a big reduction in the number of serious truck accidents due to speed and fatigue.

Whilst under 25 are over represented in death figures (less experienced drivers) has anyone done a calculation on the kilometres these younger ones are doing versus the older ones. I know when I got my licence me my mates were in our cars all weekend and a couple of school nights as well going through tanks of juice. Probably doing up to 800klms per week, simple maths says the more you do something the more likely you will crash. It is a persons attitude to driving that will determine their actions and that is hard to change.

Now anyone who says the roads were safer 30 years ago or even 10 years ago is talking through their arse, statistically the road toll has been in a downward trend for nearly 30 years (check anyone state transport authority and you will find the numbers, it is a huge drop). The fact is the road toll was in some instances 2 - 3 times higher in the 70s then today, add into this there are now 3 times more registered vehicles in the same period that is an actual reduction of 80%. Some researchers put this down to the introduction of the booze bus in the 70s, where back then alcohol related deaths were a much higher representation then they are now. In reality it probably has a lot to do with a lot of things, increased police presence, enforcement, tougher rules. The one factor that can not be overlooked is better cars and better roads, the statistics that you don't get to see which are more concerning is the amount of serious accidents that leave people permanently disabled (that does not mean that can not walk), people maybe 20 years ago would have been killed in similar accidents are now being saved but having to deal with long term rehab and permanent injury.

Perhaps we need saving from ourselves and the only way to do it is tougher laws, penalties and enforcement. Unfortunately VIC seems to be proving that if you enforce the laws to the point that people are too scared to break a law then you will see results. Personally I would like to see more training and improved standards that would long term alter attitudes to driving.

Nick

Interesting points here. I guess education is the big obvious one that should have been implemented a long time ago.

I know GPS systems have helped alot with this, but I think a bucket load of accidents happen because people do not know where the hell they are going and have trouble comprehending road signs. A classic example; Last minute changes in direction.. over 3 lanes. Some swine just give up and crawl at 5 km's an hour basically screaming, i've missed my turn off, what should I do now? Drive in a straight line and go around the fucking block for christ's sake.

i wouldnt say victoria's approach has worked. Dont know the figures for the year btween states but with 17 deaths just over this holiday break its not really something to write home about. Maybe if poor driving was targetted instead of being 3km/h over the limit and acted on like your a criminal and its the end of the world. Honestly how many cars/vehicles do you go pass and shake your head cause they drive dangerously or unsafe.
One thing that gets me stumped is how people die in a straight line on the highway? I know when heading north from sydney most of the roads are boring because they're just dead straight. Is that another problem that by building these new roadways/highways that they are actually building fatigue spots in to them? everyone does the old highways because of the twists and i found that by doing them when driving i'm more alert because you actually have to concentrate on what your doing?

my 2c as well