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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:52 am
by redzedx7r
greenmeanie wrote:On a side note i always find i am better on left corners than right(on the road). I think with me its got something to do with right corners is the oncoming traffic side.
that and your throttle hand is less cramped and you're able to control the throttle better
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:18 am
by Adz
Maty10 wrote:Adz wrote:I find downhill easier as i notice i use alot of engine braking
does anyone use engine braking for turns? Should yo uuse it, i remember someone telling me i shouldn't, and that it's dangerous on a bike. Can anyone confirm this. Because if it is it's a habit i would like to break early. sorry if thats a stupid question.
Most definitely wrong Adz for many reasons.
1) You have no control over how much braking force the engine will be supplying to the rear wheel. If it does decide to let go your gone. You'll get no feel, no feedback, just gone. And it is a whole lot of force, even your little zzr will easily compression lock the rear if you jam it into a corner engine braking.
2) It's placing the complete wrong balance on the bike. Think of your bike standing still, whats the weight balance, 40% front 60% rear? Suprise suprise thats exactly the same weight distribution your suspension needs mid corner too. Braking in any form will place more weight on the front end, using up your available grip for cornering. It also lightens the rear, leaving it with less grip for corning also.
3) More unneccessary physics that I won't go into.
In summation. The last portion of a straight is for breaking. Corners are the beginning of acceleration. You should be well and truely off the brakes and coming back on the power as YOU HIT YOUR TURN IN MARKER. Thats the very point were you begin to turn.
See if you can grab a copy of "Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code, it will change your outlook on riding. You can even borrow mine but I think it might be the sort of thing you'd want to keep for yourself.
thanks for clearing that up, one thing i not quite sure if i got this but i only use engine braking in a straight line, as soon as i start the lean as describled i am back on the throttle, so was more wondering whether it's safe to use in a straight line? I understand the setting up for the corner which is more what i am actually talking about rather then actually entering the corner. Hopefully that makes sense.
Where can i get a copy of this "Twist of the Wrist" is it a book video/dvd etc?
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:06 pm
by mike-s
you can get it in bookshops or now and then on ebay.
Speaking of which, i was thinking of having a hunt for it again online.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:24 pm
by Colette
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:10 pm
by aardvark
I have several rules with corners. Take them or leave them, but I'm sure at least one person on here will back me up.
1) Don't rush into them. That is, don't point and squirt. I see plenty of riders whacking the throttle open in the straights, ride at a million miles an hour to get to the next corner, and then be totally unprepared for the corner when they get there.
2) Look for the exit, not the entrance. The start of a corner is normally obvious. The exit isn't. Scan for the exit to the corner before you get to it.
3) If you can't actually see the exit, or determine where it is going to go, then look for the signs of where the corner is headed. Look at the trees, white posts on the side of the road, electricity poles, fence lines etc etc to give you an indicator as to where the corner is going.
Look at the white line painted on the road. If it's appears to be moving away from you, the corner will be straightening out. If it's coming closer, the corner is tightening.
4) Be ready for the corner well before you get to it.
Simple rules. Next time you go out, try slowing down a little. Take it easy in the straight bit, think about the corner coming up, make sure you look as far as possible through the corner and practice, practice, practice.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:31 pm
by Jonno
Yep spot on, another point to note is to keep your eyes/head parallel with the road as you look through the corner, if not I find it disorients me.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:09 pm
by Maty10
Adz wrote:
thanks for clearing that up, one thing i not quite sure if i got this but i only use engine braking in a straight line, as soon as i start the lean as describled i am back on the throttle, so was more wondering whether it's safe to use in a straight line? I understand the setting up for the corner which is more what i am actually talking about rather then actually entering the corner. Hopefully that makes sense.
Where can i get a copy of this "Twist of the Wrist" is it a book video/dvd etc?
Striaght line engine braking is the most effective way to brake, allows both the brakes and engine to slow the bike down. Yes it's definitely safe to do so in a straight line. But by engine braking we don't mean banging it down through the box and dumping the clutch, thats just asking for a compression lockup. All downshifting should be done with a blip of the throttle, matching the rpms to what the gearbox will be doing in the lower gear.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:11 pm
by Glen
aardvark wrote:I have several rules with corners. Take them or leave them, but I'm sure at least one person on here will back me up.
1) Don't rush into them. That is, don't point and squirt. I see plenty of riders whacking the throttle open in the straights, ride at a million miles an hour to get to the next corner, and then be totally unprepared for the corner when they get there.
2) Look for the exit, not the entrance. The start of a corner is normally obvious. The exit isn't. Scan for the exit to the corner before you get to it.
3) If you can't actually see the exit, or determine where it is going to go, then look for the signs of where the corner is headed. Look at the trees, white posts on the side of the road, electricity poles, fence lines etc etc to give you an indicator as to where the corner is going.
Look at the white line painted on the road. If it's appears to be moving away from you, the corner will be straightening out. If it's coming closer, the corner is tightening.
4) Be ready for the corner well before you get to it.
Simple rules. Next time you go out, try slowing down a little. Take it easy in the straight bit, think about the corner coming up, make sure you look as far as possible through the corner and practice, practice, practice.
Absolutely spot on. Another couple of bits that will keep you safe on the road.
Always plan to exit tight, thus giving yourself some buffer if you need to avoid something or if the corner tightens up.
Travel at a speed that you feel comfortable with and if your in a group, at your pace not someone elses.
As Jase says get set before the corner ie Position Speed and gear. The majority of crashes in corners happen because we decide to change something mid corner ie brakes, lean angle, gear.
Slow it down, concentrate on the stuff in Jases post, particularly looking as far through the corner as you can and I guarantee you will instantly feel more confident.
After you've done that then concentrate on technique ie countersteering, body position etc.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:16 pm
by Adz
thanks for clarifing that maty10 and thanks for the other pointers
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:18 pm
by Maty10
aardvark wrote: 2) Look for the exit, not the entrance. The start of a corner is normally obvious. The exit isn't. Scan for the exit to the corner before you get to it.
Or the vanishing point, the point point where the left hand side of the road meets the right hand side. Looking for the "exit" might leave you looking for the outside curbing, object fixation takes over, and you hit that outside curbing every time when you probably don't need to. And by mid corner, you will probably be looking for the next corner. Looking for the exit still will leave you with no plan after it.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:35 pm
by samhasa636
aardvark wrote:Next time you go out, try slowing down a little.
Case in point:
I recently attended a Race School at Eastern Creek and lapped consistent times for the first session. My "instructor" then helped me correct a few body poistion issues and then said this:
"JUST SLOW DOWN MAYBE 3 SECONDS PER LAP TO GIVE YOU MORE TIME TO FOCUS ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING"
And that is what I did. I was actually braking much earlier and coasting into the corner. It felt like I was doing maybe 10 seconds a lap slower. Low and behold my lap times did not shift a single second. By slowing down and thinking about what I was doing made me ride better and the thus my average speed didn't change.