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Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:03 pm
by seiko1
Gosling1 wrote:that would be a piece of piss for any half-baked solicitor to challenge in a court and win.

The Courts don't give a flying fuck what 'Transport for NSW' think - if you got booked for wearing a helmet with an AS sticker on it that is legal in every other state of the country - you would get off.

This will only be a problem - as it is already and this is *not* news - if the helmet does not have the AS1698:1988 sticker.

8)
The problem with stupid laws like that being introduced in SA is...............even if you win against the PoPo in Court....you still have to pay the Court costs :x
How's that for "Justice"? Only the well off can afford it ;)

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:21 pm
by seiko1
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523326_409182402471577_2001938514_n.jpg (34.88 KiB) Viewed 1379 times

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:21 am
by valkau
It's a pain that each juridiction has to do its own precious version of testing and there isn't international collaboration - and we wonder why Australia is so bloody expensive? Mind you, we've all seen wankers who try and peddle cheap crap that promises everything and delivers nothing so surely its about the right balance? Trust me, I'm a car dealer..trust me I'm a real estate salesman...never ridden on the track.... How about the Wang Chee carbon fibre motorcycle helmet for $35 post free?

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:03 pm
by Takamii
I did some more research into into Guys article

Okay I did some further research

What This article failed to mention is as follows
the link is here http://www.coag.gov.au/mutual_recogn..._agreement.cfm

"In 1996 the Commonwealth, States and Territories and New Zealand signed the Arrangement establishing the TTMRA. The purpose of the TTMRA is to implement mutual recognition principles relating to the sale of goods and the registration of occupations. These principles, with a few exceptions, state that:

a good that may be legally sold in Australia may be sold in New Zealand, and a good that may be legally sold in New Zealand may be sold in Australia. This is regardless of differences in standards or other sale-related regulatory requirements between Australia and New Zealand; and
a person registered to practise an occupation in Australia is entitled to practise an equivalent occupation in New Zealand, and vice versa, without the need for further testing or examination.
"

However

The TTMRA entered into force on 1 May 1998.

The Department of Innovation, Industry, Science and Research administers the TTMRA as it relates to goods. The Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations administers the TTMRA as it relates to occupations.

The TTMRA provides a simple, low cost and low maintenance mechanism for overcoming unnecessary regulatory impediments to trade in goods and the movement of skilled practitioners between Australia and New Zealand. Benefits flowing from the TTMRA include:

lower costs to business and improved competitiveness from being able to manufacture to a single standard;
greater choice for consumers; and
greater cooperation between regulatory authorities.



notice how it says to manufacture to a single standard


Now before we used to have AS 1698 now it is actually AS/NZS 1698:2006


Further the agreement states

1. subject to certain exemptions for the protection of public health and safety and
the environment,
the Arrangement is intended only to take precedence over
such Laws of Participating Parties in respect of Goods as would effectively
prevent or restrict the sale in the Jurisdiction of that Party of a Good that can
legally be sold in the Jurisdiction of another Participating Party;


Further

PART IV
OPERATION OF THE SCHEME
GOODS
4.1.1 Under this Arrangement, a Good that may legally be sold in the Jurisdiction of
an Australian Party may legally be sold in New Zealand and a Good that may legally be
sold in New Zealand may legally be sold in the Jurisdiction of any Australian Party.
Goods need only comply with the standards or Regulations applying in the jurisdiction
in which they are produced or through which they are imported
. - ( THIS PART I SERIOUSLY HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT IN DEPTH TO ASCERTAIN THE MEANING OR INFLECTION OR APPLICATION - IF HELMETS PRODUCED IN NZ = OK ? IF HELMETS IMPORTED VIA AUSTRALIAN CUSTOMS /LAWS THEN MUST BE AS THE CURRENT STATUS FOR THEM) The understandings
entered into under this principle are confined to the laws of each Party.
4.1.2 Under the principle referred to in sub-paragraph 4.1.1, mutual recognition will
affect certain laws relating to the sale of Goods of the jurisdiction where the Goods are
intended for sale. Such laws include:
(a) Requirements relating to production, composition, quality or performance of a
Good;
(b) Requirements that a Good satisfy certain standards relating to presentation, such as
packaging, labelling, date, or age stamping;
(c) Requirements that Goods be inspected, passed or similarly dealt with; or
(d) any other Requirement that would prevent or restrict, or would have the effect of
preventing or restricting, the sale of the Good.
4.1.3 The Arrangement is not intended to affect the operation of any laws to the
extent that they regulate:
(a) the manner of the sale of Goods or the manner in which sellers conduct or are
required to conduct their business, so long as those laws apply equally to Goods
produced or imported in the Jurisdiction of the Party. Examples include:
(i) the contractual aspects of the sale of Goods;
(ii) the registration of sellers or other persons carrying on occupations;
(iii) the requirements for business franchise licences;
(iv) the persons to whom Goods may or may not be sold; and

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:11 pm
by Takamii
stetto wrote:How hard is it to put up a list of all helmets that pass our certification and then realise an arai corsair v is the exact same helmet regardless if it has a euro, USA, jap or any other cert. sticker? They'd probably defend with they could be cheap copies. The helmet laws dumb anyway

They are NOT always the same - take it from a legally defined ( by Federal Government ) expert

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 pm
by Nelso
Order helmet from the US for half the cost, get a shiny little sticker off the internet....... nec minnit.......

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:56 pm
by 6maniac
and kiss your compo goodbye if it's discovered ... :(

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:14 am
by stetto
Takamii wrote: They are NOT always the same - take it from a legally defined ( by Federal Government ) expert
How do they differ? Production inconsistency or different construction? They cant test every lid they'd destroy them so theres no way they can b sure every lid passes certification. I cant see arai making 2 different lids the same model for 2 different countries, surely its cheaper to make 1 lid that passes certification everywhere

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:09 pm
by EDU
Not sure exactly what differs but I know for a fact US helmets are heavier than their counterparts from Europe or Japan. No idea why, but I did weigh several helmets (a friend collects) of the same size and every time the US model was heavier by at least 200g on the same size/brand/model/etc.

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:34 pm
by smithy5
EDU wrote:Not sure exactly what differs but I know for a fact US helmets are heavier than their counterparts from Europe or Japan. No idea why, but I did weigh several helmets (a friend collects) of the same size and every time the US model was heavier by at least 200g on the same size/brand/model/etc.
Tyres the same..... Bridgestone make a tyre for the US and one for EU, JAP & AUS markets.
The US ones don't last as long, they are manufactured to a price, not to a standard, due to the US market being so large.

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:58 am
by stetto
Yeh but temperature affects rubber alot more than a helmet, its necessary

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:35 pm
by Takamii
stetto wrote:
Takamii wrote: They are NOT always the same - take it from a legally defined ( by Federal Government ) expert
How do they differ? Production inconsistency or different construction? They cant test every lid they'd destroy them so theres no way they can b sure every lid passes certification. I cant see arai making 2 different lids the same model for 2 different countries, surely its cheaper to make 1 lid that passes certification everywhere
Apologies for the late reply

Different construction - for example my helmets are 1300 grams - if I only had to conform to ece 22.5 they would weigh in at 900 grams the extra weight is in the extra reinforcement required to pass AS1698 standards

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:38 pm
by Takamii
stetto wrote:Yeh but temperature affects rubber alot more than a helmet, its necessary
temperature affects all materials - climate conditions in Australia are vastly different to Europe

part of standards testing is baking the helmets for 14 hours in an oven then impact testing - also water submerged for the same hours then impact tested

Re: NSW helmet laws

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:41 pm
by Takamii
EDU wrote:Not sure exactly what differs but I know for a fact US helmets are heavier than their counterparts from Europe or Japan. No idea why, but I did weigh several helmets (a friend collects) of the same size and every time the US model was heavier by at least 200g on the same size/brand/model/etc.

You are correct and well informed for this I commend you Sir - there are differences in construction and reinforcement please see my post above