Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Gos, since 2006 who has had more wins? Hailwood retired at the same age and granted won more titles but it was a very different story back then and comparisons are neither fair nor accurate. Johnny Cecotto won plenty of bike races and could have been a great in that era but to compare is not fair in my opinion

Here is a really good article on Stoner's achievements and puts a lot into perspective in the modern era (whatever the fuck that is) - http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Stoners+Records

Naked Twin wrote:Gos, since 2006 who has had more wins? Hailwood retired at the same age and granted won more titles but it was a very different story back then and comparisons are neither fair nor accurate. Johnny Cecotto won plenty of bike races and could have been a great in that era but to compare is not fair in my opinion

Here is a really good article on Stoner's achievements and puts a lot into perspective in the modern era (whatever the fuck that is) - http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Stoners+Records

who cares how many races have been won since 2006 ? When did that year become the benchmark ?

Of course it was different back then - you can't go fast on skinny tyres !! It was just as hard for those blokes to control 80hp through a skinny ribbed Dunlop with a bike that flexed like a bitch - as it is for modern-day riders to control 250hp through 6" slicks. It is all relative, but either way you need massive balls to win, no matter which era you rode in.

Comparisons between different years and riders are absolutely fair and accurate as far as I am concerned. They are all out there racing motorcycles after all. In fact I would suggest that it was a shitload harder for blokes to race and win back in the early years when they didn't have a team of mechanics doing everything for them , a jacuzzi in the transporter, ice-packs for every mozzie-bite and the best dietary and physical conditioning coaches that money can buy.

They are called records for a reason.....and I don't discount any of the records that Casey has - good on him it has been a great career and he has done really well.

Gos you are a hard arse bastard:P , but I doubt the same riders today or yesterday could do the same in opposite roles. Requirements are different, Barry Sheene smoked on the grid! Ago was the only rider allowed on a competitive MV (it was said you couldn't win on another bike at that time), some say this ensured only he could win, he still had to have the ability but that doesn't mean he was the best. The same goes today, Rossi would be said to be the best in the modern era, but he he has had the best equipment also to be able to succeed and when he hasn't (Ducati) he has failed miserably.
BTW 2006 was the reference point for Stoner, no one has been able to match him for poles, race wins or podiums in those 6 years. Records that will be hard to beat.

You are right to say "records" but times change and so do circumstances

Ago was the only rider on the grid who was backed by Count Rossi ! nobody else could afford an MV. But he still had to go out there and do it - often on 2 or 3 different capacity bikes in 1 meeting.

Freddie Spencer won a 500/250 double in the same season. He is rarely mentioned as one of the best riders to strap on a lid, but you can bet your balls that not 1 rider currently on the GP grid could do that today. Does that make Freddie the best rider ever ? He was a far better rider than he is ever given credit for, maybe because he just had a screw loose nobody rated him.......

Yes time and circumstances change - but records do not. They reflect what happened in that 'window' of time, for that particular rider. I think to say that someone who has not won as many races is a better rider than someone who won far more - is like saying that Geelong have been a better football team than Collingwood - even though Geelong have only won 8 premierships in their history compared to the 16 premierships that Collingwood have won. Clearly - if Geelong were a better team they would have won more premierships ! But they haven't, and they aren't.

Johnny Cecotto beat Freddie Spencer and went into F1 and car racing (a side hobby of mine trying to find racing footage of Cecotto) lead me to this information. By all reports had he not crashed when and how he did he could have been the next big thing.

BTQ Collingwood are a bunch of two headed red neck proverbial's and yes I am swans supporter and those collingwood fans can stick up their back passage as we sail past them into the GF again. (I hate them coming to homebush, fuck me we have lost for the last 6 years, of which I have suffered 5 of those, some by only a couple of points and worse still we have been in front prior to losing. That is not good when you have been giving it to the surrounding supporters as I do to assist them in directions like fuck off).

Oh and yes clearly Collingwood are a bunch of cheating low life rednecks that can only win by buying premierships, only a bunch of tossers would claim Eddie as their leader!

Gosling1 wrote: is like saying that Geelong have been a better football team than Collingwood - even though Geelong have only won 8 premierships in their history compared to the 16 premierships that Collingwood have won. Clearly - if Geelong were a better team they would have won more premierships ! But they haven't, and they aren't.

Please, for the love of God, do NOT bring religion into the argument!

Since you mentioned religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-RJeqyh-vI

now we are getting there !! I was up at Homebush ANZ Stadium last Saturday night with 3 of the kids, and sat right in near the Swannies cheer squad !! fuck me it was great fun. The 3 young blokes a couple of rows ahead would all like to have punched the shit out of me by the end of the game......but they were only young blokes and I am a T-Rex It was a great game to watch and the Swannies kicked themselves out of a win......assisted by some excellent Collingwood defence You poor bugger there is nothing worse than giving it out all game and then seeing your team lose. 11 out of 11 now for the mighty Pies over the ugly Ducks.

But the comparison with premierships is still valid I reckon. Look at it this way....

In 20 years time - some young buck will win 15 GP races in a row. They will be saying he is *the greatest motorcycle rider of all time* - even if he only wins 6 titles in 10 years. Somebody will point out that Mick Doohan won 6 from 7 world championships in a row many years ago.......and everyone else will say - oh yeah but that doesn't count because it was a long time ago and the circumstances and times were different.....Mick had no opposition ( did he ever have anyone really push him ?)

well what would anyone from our era think about that ? They would rightly call bullshit - because it is. The fact that records were won in different eras makes not a zot of difference to the fact that they were ......won. Mick Doohans records should not be diminished in 20 or 30 years time by kids who have not even been born yet - simply because they occurred in a different timeframe. I apply this same logic to the records of Ago and Read and Surtees.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.

Opinions are like ARSEHOLES everboby has one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Fred

Fred wrote:Opinions are like ARSEHOLES everboby has one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Fred

and they all stink!

Stuzrx wrote:Yep...Stoner is an absolute brilliant rider.Not much doubt about that.
But....don't forget the Duke was well developred when Stoner arrived to ride it,and the the big H was even better developed when he arrived.
I reckon he was the finishing touch that both machines needed to take atitle.
Unfortunately he also seemed to start moaning and groaning when he hit a Factory team.

Buggered if I know why Rossi couldn't get the Dukes act together.But neither has Hayden.
I'm well surprised that Rossi has not gone on with "the project",cause I think he has made a real goose of himself now.

Not taken sides, just sayin'.

The Ducati was a brand new bike with zero development when Stoner arrived, it was the first year of the 800's.

Bring back the strokers I say!!

Mick Doohan is God & any references to him having no competition during his reign will be dealt with by a bolt of lightning to the nuts.
Casey may be Jesus... we'll see if wins the championship this year.
Rossi is a Homo, I'm not Homophobic or anything but seriously, he's a Homo...

s man wrote:I love & back every word Casey has said,, It needed to be said to the world, instead of under your breath comments that have been going around for over 18 months.

Everything he said was the truth, yet Casey makes one mistake, or makes a comment, he is labled a whinger.
The kid is just giving a bit back, & thats the Aussie spirit coming out in him.
Three cheers to him for saying what eveyybody is thinking, but hasnt got the balls to say!!!

++++++++++

I would have quoted Gos quoting s man , But all that Collingwood crap reduces his credibility to zero .

Kwak addict wrote:Mick Doohan is God & any references to him having no competition during his reign will be dealt with by a bolt of lightning to the nuts.
Casey may be Jesus... we'll see if wins the championship this year.
Rossi is a Homo, I'm not Homophobic or anything but seriously, he's a Homo...

So was Freddie Mercury. They both were the best at what they did.
So are you saying for a Homo he is a great rider (9 world titles and all)