Gouging tolls and inappropriate technology, from MCCofNSW

[Glen]

Yeah, the RTA Etag works on everything but you have to provide a bank or credit card so every time your balance drops below $20 they rip another $80 out. Very cunning little ploy because you don't physically hand the money over so you tend to notice it less.

I live in Castle Hill and work in Milperra so when the M7 is open I'm doing the whole trip. My tolls will apparently be $7 each way. Do the numbers and you get $3k per year regardless of whether I ride the bike or take the car.

[Ment]

$3000 a year to used a f'ing road?

Thats just outrageous. Hell id be organising potests every week about that.
something like blocking the people in charge houses and charging them a toll to get in and out of their house just for a start. You just know they dont have to pay for using these roads.

Got to love privatisation, bring on the telstra sale huh...

furgin wankers

[Glen]

You're not wrong. Without turning this into a political discussion what Bob Carr has done to NSW is an absolute fucking disgrace. The problem is there is absolutely no alternative.

Our road system whether it be in the city or country is an absolute disgrace also despite the fact that we pay our 3c per litre of fuel levy (which now seems to have dropped off the radar screen). The Pacific Highway heading north has been being worked on forever, yet numbnuts in cages still manage to crash head on into each other. We still pay stupid money to ride/drive on Motorways that dump you on to a ridiculously clogged arterial road ie Parramatta Rd M4, Epping Road M2, Abbot rd M2, plus we still get to stop at tollbooths because the knobheads can't work out a decent tolling system.

Other than the above I love the place...

[JamesLaugesen]

Please read this and foward off to every biker you know...
Don't block roads! DON'T SPAM IMPORTANT PEOPLE.

Until the MCofNSW decide that it'd be a good idea to create mayhem, we just shouldn't do it because we could easily damage our reputation... even further; thanks to the increased media coverage lately of stunters on public roads (A coincidence you think? With the upcoming tolls... yeah sure )

Please read the attached, again from my political friend known only as "Tim"

Mate,

Just recieved the text of the e-mail you sent me yesterday - the points about the tolls - from someone else with a header about sending this on to everyone you know.

This will not help your cause. I will probably recieve many of these and Chris' e-mail address will recieve more of them. Members will just delete these and the Minister's you are trying to see will recognise you guys as the ones blocking their inboxes.

Spamming Ministers and MPs in the hope that one will listen is not going to work. It's a desperate tactic which you should only use once everything else has failed just to annoy them.

Strongly suggest you get your mates to stop this and move in a more diplomatic direction. I can help you organise meetings with the Ministers and petitions. Meeting with Costa shouldn't be too hard, Della will be harder but not impossible.

Just so you know, we get about 50-60 spam e-mails per day from interest groups, nutters, extremists and companies trying to sell us stuff. They are all deleted. Yours is an important issue and I wouldn't like to see it simply dismissed.

Sorry to sound harsh but it's better to stop it before it starts that do damage.

Cheers,

Tim

DON'T SPAM

[cowprint]

whoever it was that said dont do the roadblock thing I agree with, its pretty much a waste of time in sydney, we have the highest road rage in the country why antagonise sydney drivers they are agro enough as it is, does anyone seriously think that doing this silly roadblock thing will make drivers think yeah look at those bikers they have so much to go thru paying tolls, its a silly idea as they or most would just think bloody bikers shouldnt be on the road, and we are at enough risk as it is with both our roads condition and the tunnel visioned drivers,I could mention a few examples that I personally know of of cage rage against a biker that would support this.
I drive and ride most days and even i get annoyed in the traffic seeing bikes do what Id like to be doing, lane splitting, we have enough of a bad image already without making it worse. there has got to be a better way of showing that bikes are more friendlier to roads, maybe and I hate to suggest this an approach should maybe be made to an environmental group as we all know, its those annoying flag waving lobby groups with minimal members that get the most publicity and get things done, look what the anti smoking lobby has accomplished.
we should be looking more to the positives then the negatives, sure I get pissed off that I have to pay the same toll for my bike as I do for my work ute but pissing people off isnt going to change anything.
and if Ive offended anyone saying its a stupid idea look at what happened in vic, what was it 40 bikes showed up, is it really going to do anything? had i have not saw something about it on this forum i wouldntve know about it.
rant over
back to our normal program.....

Steve
ZZR250 & Cage

[cowprint]

i forgot also the rta tag works great on the bike, especially whe you go around the hole in the ground and it doesnt register you or send you a notice, not my fault the ground unit doesnt pick up a bike.....

[frozzie]

whoever it was that said dont do the roadblock thing I agree with, its pretty much a waste of time in sydney, we have the highest road rage in the country why antagonise sydney drivers they are agro enough as it is, does anyone seriously think that doing this silly roadblock thing will make drivers think yeah look at those bikers they have so much to go thru paying tolls, its a silly idea as they or most would just think bloody bikers shouldnt be on the road, and we are at enough risk as it is with both our roads condition and the tunnel visioned drivers,I could mention a few examples that I personally know of of cage rage against a biker that would support this.
I drive and ride most days and even i get annoyed in the traffic seeing bikes do what Id like to be doing, lane splitting, we have enough of a bad image already without making it worse. there has got to be a better way of showing that bikes are more friendlier to roads, maybe and I hate to suggest this an approach should maybe be made to an environmental group as we all know, its those annoying flag waving lobby groups with minimal members that get the most publicity and get things done, look what the anti smoking lobby has accomplished.
we should be looking more to the positives then the negatives, sure I get pissed off that I have to pay the same toll for my bike as I do for my work ute but pissing people off isnt going to change anything.
and if Ive offended anyone saying its a stupid idea look at what happened in vic, what was it 40 bikes showed up, is it really going to do anything? had i have not saw something about it on this forum i wouldntve know about it.
rant over
back to our normal program.....

Steve
ZZR250 & Cage

Understand that this is not going to be designed as a road block, but a demonstration of numbers, might even get the cagers and other users go for free. That was a very useful tactic we French used in the same battle, to gain public support. It worked, but only because we had the numbers.

So when we have a date set up if this is to go on, stop whinging and start acting.

Basically the MCC needs to get it right first time, otherwise our community will still be seen as a minority, and our voices will remain unheard.

I can't give you the fiite details of the operation, if we want it to be a success, thigs have to be well organised.

[JamesLaugesen]

******* UPDATE *******

Motorcycles and Toll Roads

The short story is below.


Motorcycles in Sydney are charged the same rate of toll as a car.

Brisbane is the only city where motorcycles are tolled at a lower rate
than cars. (40% and 50%)

Sydney riders lost their toll rate of 25% of the car rate on August 31
1992. Tolls rose for cars from 20 cents to $2 and there was lots of
shouting. The motorcyclists' plea got lost in the shouting. But its
back again now!

Why give over govt. roads to private contractors?
Here is the Federal govt view
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transprog/govt_links/ppp.aspx
Yes, there are good reasons to do this and the way in which it is done
is slowly changing. However, we have the present situation and for
motorcyclists, it stinks!

Lack of a separate classification for motorcycles at Federal and State
levels means that motorcycles have been invisible to transport
planning. Contracts for toll roads have failed to include a provision
for motorcycles.

We can argue that the failure to include motorcycles is a simple
oversight that needs correction. Simplistically, this means getting
the toll level corrected. Then we have the additional problem of
motorcycle specific cashless tolling technology that allows riders to
enjoy use of the toll roads with the same facility as other vehicles.
Car type E-tags simply don't work on most motorcycles.

Neither issue has been addressed from a government policy perspective.
It is always an afterthought.

This oversight makes motorcycle riders feel they are being ignored.
There is ample evidence to show that is true. Motorcycles receive very
little in terms of road safety. The poor safety record for motorcycles
in Australia reflects lack of inclusion in planning and expenditure.
Motorcycle parking is very limited, again from a failure to include
motorcycles in transport planning.

It is infuriating to riders to find themselves being blamed for the
problems and being asked to pay "administrative fees" because a
motorcycle does not fit their planning model.

These problems were not made by the motorcyclists.
They all emerge from a failure of public policy to include motorcycles.

In Victoria, the problem was recognised after representation by
motorcycle activists through the MRA and it was agreed to allow riders
to go free, as the appropriate technology did not exist to toll riders.

Now we have toll road operators claiming to have appropriate
technology, yet it is to cost riders extra in "administration fees".
This is gouging, to charge riders for failing to use inappropriate and
unsafe technology. Riders did not create this problem and should not
pay toll road administration fees. It is the toll road operators
problem or a government policy problem.

Below is a list of Australian toll roads and the websites of the
operators.

Cross City Tunnel http://www.crosscitymotorway.com.au/

M2 Northwest http://www.hillsmotorway.com.au/

M4 West http://www.m4motorway.com.au/

M5 South West http://www.m5motorway.com.au/home/

Harbour Bridge & Tunnel
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/trafficinform ... index.html

Eastern Disributor http://www.easterndistributor.com/

M7 Orbital http://www.westlinkm7.com.au/

Queensland Logan and Gateway http://www.qldmotorways.com.au/

Melbourne Citilink http://www.citylink.com.au/

In NSW, a bicycle is a vehicle for the purposes of the Motor Traffic
Act and should be charged a toll. But bicycles are not tolled at all.
Also, a bicycle should pay for parking, as again, it is defined as a
vehicle. The vehicle classification is very broad and inconsistently
applied. Good heavens above, more failures in transport planning.

THE SHORT STORY.............................

We want the NSW government policy to ensure:-

(1) RETURN MOTORCYCLE TOLL RATE TO 25% OF CAR TOLL RATE
(2) NO "ADMINISTRATION" FEES FOR MOTORCYCLISTS

Should reason fail the RTA and Transport Minister, a protest will be
required, to spoil the opening with bad press directed to government
failures in transport planning.

This would be supported by a mass media campaign from MCC of NSW.

We would need masses of bikes to do this properly, or not do it at
all. Keep Sunday June 12 clear, advise your club. It would be a "slow
ride"

Decision to be taken on Monday night at next MCC meeting
http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/


Guy
MCC of NSW

Adding to what Frozzie said; please please conform to MCC's plans! Anyone with their own brilliant wonderful ideas should either discuss it with MCC at a meeting or keep it to themselves; anyone going off on their own self-rightious protest will only ruin the cause... so take note that it will be a SLOW protest! No wheelies up the emegency lane, no big banners with insulting sketches of politicians, blah blah blah.

Anyhoo, round up all your mates coz if we need to protest, we really need a better turn-out than the Melbonites had That would be absolutely painful!

[gray_rm]

Folk,
I think it's too late to arrange any sort of protest:
----------------------------------excerpt-------------------
Taking a toll: e-tag armbands for motorcyclists
By Malcolm Brown
June 4, 2005

Motorcyclists will no longer have to search for coins at toll booths.

They will be able to buy armband e-tags, allowing them to ride straight through tollgates on the new cross-city tunnel, to be opened on Sunday June 12.

The e-tag system, announced today by Peter Sansom, boss of CrossCity Motorway, will be valid on all motorways in NSW.

Rosco Lloyd, director of the NSW Chapter of the Harley Owners Club, said it would make life a lot easier.

And rider Meg Doyle said it was not before time. At Sydney Harbour Tunnel this morning, she said her juggling act had almost brought her to grief by banging her into the car in front.

Rider Ray Mychalewycz had tried using a car e-tag on his bike. It was legal but inconvenient and yesterday morning it had not worked.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Looks like full fare, with a nice new armband as well!

[frozzie]

The arm band is what we don't want at the MCC. It can hinder your movements on a sports bike, and injure you badly in case of an off!

And we would like to only pay 1/4 of the fare.

Keep your 12 June free, if we don't get satisfaction, we'll join in on the opening party!! If you are supposed to visit grandma on that day, bring her along

I am sure that we should know very shortly as to when and where. Stay tuned.


Frozzie

[mike-s]

Sounds like time to relocate my rego sticker.

Sure they have put an idea together, half arsed and most probably totally inconvenient none the less. I think it's still worthy of a protest however, as tollways suck and we do cause significantly less road wear on bikes than a car ever could hope to.

Honestly i dont like the chances though, as the goverment seems pretty heads-up-arse-n-fuck-the-lot-of-ya on a lot of issues, not just this one.

[frozzie]

Folk,
I think it's too late to arrange any sort of protest:
----------------------------------excerpt-------------------
Taking a toll: e-tag armbands for motorcyclists
By Malcolm Brown
June 4, 2005

What time zone is this guy in? We're only the 3rd of June.

[gray_rm]

What time zone is this guy in? We're only the 3rd of June.

A friend of a friend forwarded some advance press copy... will verify as soon as I can.

[frozzie]

Sounds like time to relocate my rego sticker.

Honestly i dont like the chances though, as the goverment seems pretty heads-up-arse-n-fuck-the-lot-of-ya on a lot of issues, not just this one.

That's why we need a real show of force, that might need to be repeated, we vote too!

We are working on a few different actions that we are putting in place with the MCC. Some that I will be trialling up here in my area.

It should be a good fun day, the object of the game is also to appear civilised, so just a nice slow ride to the tunnel.

[frozzie]

What time zone is this guy in? We're only the 3rd of June.

A friend of a friend forwarded some advance press copy... will verify as soon as I can.

Get him to verify the MCC's view on the arm band, from the original message from the MCC (they can also contact the MCC) all good journalists should be objective and tell both sides of the story, otherwise its called propaganda!