Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Leanne wrote:If we were in a perfect world then all the groups would have riders with the same or similar abilities and would all be going at a similar speed. Unfortunately life's not like that and there are a small number of riders who think their ability is far greater than what it is and I agree that is dangerous especially when they are mobile chicaines in the faster groups. For those riders that are dangerously slow and out there in the fast group they definitely need to be brought to the attention of the track day organisers and I would doubt that the rider would think that they need any sort of instruction or assistance with their riding.

On the flip side of the coin I guess you need to remember what you were like when you started out. We all had to start somewhere and we don't get where we are going without practice.

If you are fast and riding around in the med-fast or slower groups, even if it is just to scrub tyres in, then you need to consider that there is going to be a huge speed and ability difference in those groups and the riders aren't going to be as exprienced and stay on the correct line. So, when you are approaching them give them more space and anticipate that they are going to do something stupid or wrong and you might have more time to get out of the way if they get it all horribly wrong.

+1... Well put Leanne

These are ride days, not race days... The slowest guy on the track paid the same money as the fastest guy on the track, so everyone is entitled to do their thing. I could probably go up a group, but I choose to be amoungst the quicker riders in my group, than amoungst the slower riders in the next group. At times I get held up by slower/inexperienced riders, but I just wait a few corners and give them some room then get round when I can, or I just do a ride through the pits.. At the end of the day, if you and your bike go home in the same condition as when you arrived your a winner

However, I also think the Organisers need to do more in forcing riders to change groups rather than waiting for requests.

Feedback great, And yep everyone's right on the money, with their comments. We do all pay the same buks to get out there. so we all have the same rights.
ride day opperators may need to on ball bettter, ego's are a problem, and there will allways be ego over ability.
but there is a difference between ego's and having upmost confindence in urself tho.
Even after 30 odd yrs of track days, i myself are more than willing to listern to what others have to say. close ur mind and u wont move forward.
At broardy i will often wander around and chat to the guys that are faster, u never kno what bit of advice will come ur way. some good , some u take away and digest.
The guy who's name i missed, that put up a comment about not knowing about setup, and having conferdence to get out and have a go is why i put this post up, now if he had a exp mate that has been doing this for a while and spent the day with him, even just talking him thru the day, help with bike after each sessions ect, is going to take a lot of pressure off him.
When my mate did his 1st ride day recently, i took his bike up for him, left mine at home so i could just spend the day with him. got our bay, set his bike up, and most importantly showed what i was doing to his bike and why so he can learn about it himself, each time he came in i checked tyre wear to see what changes needed to be made, hell i even had to tell to drink lots of water after cramping up, as he told me later, the nerves got to him and he forgot to drink.
But at the end of the day he was over the moon about his 1st track day, and has been back again, last sunday!! which is what got me thinking.
The plan last sunday was for me to do med/fast so i could be on track with him, and follow him, watch up close and than be able help better with lines, braking ect, 2nd session was for him to get in behind me and follow, and yes i did ride at a slower pace, that was the point of the day. and no it didnt work out!! back to plan b!!

Blurr wrote:.....I have also been know to give the bird too 2 different instructors making obstacles of themselves .....

remember that dork instructor from ECRD who thinks he is really quick ?

I remember going past him on the 12 in that Santa suit up through T5 a few years ago !! he wasn't real happy with that.....

Don't Mess With Santa !!

I haven't got much to add to this except that I've done one track day and opted to pay the extra for Wayne to give some tuition. It was hands down the best thing i could have done for myself that day. I knew where i was going right, wrong, and what to aim for to improve my riding.

I'd like to do a trackday again in the future, but i'd need to pick up and start doing a lot more riding long before that happens (been just too busy with other stuff & on the sidelines for it to happen any time soon.

09sydrd wrote:easy fix , give everyone a transponder and assess the groups based on the times after the first session. Problem resolved. Put lights on it so it automatically flashes up the color of the group your ride in next. i.e red, green , yellow, white . Probably bruise a few egos's but at least everyone generally would be in the correct groups .

Bracket racing. SA has had it for years. Pity it never made it any over the border.

I also believe that people for whatever reason , maybe ego?don't like to say there in the slow group, I think in general people step up too early to a faster group. When I first started track days I stayed in slow until I had no option but to move up. I often found there was half as many guys running in slow than med or med/fast so it gave me less peps to deal with. Even when I had to step up I actually often found there were guys slower in the faster groups than those that were in slow!!
It's probably like so many other things in life it's needs some education and common sense approach.
I disagree about the crashing I can remember being at Phillip island one day when the only people crashing on the day was the fast boys, so much so they cut our sessions down to almost nothing yet the fast boys were still getting their 15 min. I went up and complained and they sent me out with the fast boys!
Although I agree that some weird and wonderful lines are abundant as I have often been scared when near other people and their lines are everywhere in med and med/fast.

Jonnymac wrote:.
I disagree about the crashing I can remember being at Phillip island one day when the only people crashing on the day was the fast boys, so much so they cut our sessions down to almost nothing yet the fast boys were still getting their 15 min. I went up and complained and they sent me out with the fast boys!

Sorry..I got a bit confused...did the fast boys keep crashing or the slow boys?

Fast boys there would've been 10 crashes for the day and 8 were in the fast group. Sorry for the confusion it was just in reference to an earlier post that said crashes always seemed to be in the slower groups.
The thing which upset me was they continued to give the fast boys there 15 min yet cut down everyone else's session times. A few racers were there and apparently they need more track time than everyday punters..........

I aint helping anyone anymore.!!!!


They end up faster than me....

Watties already beating my lap times and it won't be long before Blurr does... bastards the pair of em..

Just kidding,
I'm no expert but I'm always up to help others out, if they want to listen.
A lot don't, but thats fine as its like most things, you ask 5 riders the same question and you'll get 5 different answers, only 1 may work for the individual. they need to sort that out.

The problem with ppl in the wrong groups is always going to be there. Theres a few reasons, in my opinion.
1. Ego's - ppl all like to think there faster than they are, only "official" timing will sort that.
2. The middle groups booking out so early leaving only the fast or slow groups available, who's going to book slow.??
3. No on track marshalls moving ppl around.
4. No timing to move ppl around..

Everyone knows what lap times they do (unless its your first day, then you should be in slow), or pretty close to, even if timing isn't allowed, but too many ppl think they will go a lot faster in the faster group so it will be fine... It isn't and you won't.!! (OK, it might, but at least wait until your overtaking most ppl in your current group.)
I didn't go into the fast group until I was told to by a marshall I overtook - and that was a long time ago when timing was allowed and they had on track marshalls moving ppl around. this era is commonly refered to as "the good ole days."
Fast ppl in the slow groups don't usually cause much problem (usually, not always), but slow ppl in the fast group can be deadly.

I havent done as much track time as a lot on here,only started just over a year ago,I tend to urr on the side of caution and did a stay upright course at broadford before my first track day .I have done 12 days or so since this includes 2 race schools,once i went in the medium group and yep that was not good so since going in the fast group (not the sper fast group) and am pretty commfy there.As mentioned i also have found a few guys that should not be in this group and pretty much nothing is done about it,one insedence in particular some dud tried to overtake on crash corner around the outside when was way too deep and ended up in the embankment,next lap some one else tried the same on the inside if i hadnt stood my bike up he would have taken us both out He crashed next lap.Its neber going to be perfectly safe but culling the riders that are in the wrong groups earlier would make it a lot safer.I dont want to crash or be taken out as when you get to 50 you dont heal so well
.

As Dave referred to them as the good ole days I don't feel so bad

The difference back when Dave Stone and Spence were the main two operators was that you had Marshalls who were appropriate to the groups they were Marshalling who would actively tap people on the shoulder and move them around. We would also spend the first session flagging and radioing back to the pits with info on who was too fast/too slow for their group.

Mind you it wasn't all perfect. I remember Kev Curtain getting some practise time out in the slow group on the occasional busy day.

Glen wrote:... I remember Kev Curtain getting some practise time out in the slow group on the occasional busy day......

I would loved to have seen that !

it is up to the faster blokes to pass safely - end of story.

This is not race practice - it is a track day. If some muggins finds himself in the Red group and is a fair bit slower - then the fast guys owe it to all concerned - including themselves - to pass safely. There are no sheep stations at stake here.

Well put madkaw, and z900.Mmm passing on the outside at crash, fuck that just plain crazy!!! when u arive at crash u should be on the white line to ur left, and turn in as late as u can, and i mean late as u can. Now that i think of it, i have been at PI when guys have gone down in red, but maybe those chaps should not have been there?? i dont kno, but i have some onboard footage[when we were aloud to to] of a guy going down in front of me at the hayshed, and it was a high speed one!!! But it will happen from time to time when u are on the limit.
slow guys in fast can be a worry of course, because they try to stay with the guys going past, the red mist visor thing!! and for sure fast guys in slower groups prob is safer, but i spoken to a number of people in med/ fast and they dont like it, which is understandable to. I think the difference tho is that the quick guys, we hope kno there lines and are able to stay on them lap after lap.I run around in the mid to low 102s at broady, with a best of 101.7 last yr, and i have fast guys come past often, but at speed passing is usally ok.
I had a guy recently chop me up at crash, did'nt bother me as i knew he was coming, just a bit suprised, because i was on the racing line, so he came past me just as i was turning in, and had to prop for a sec, no drama, but he did come and have a chat and said sorry, wasnt a issue to me, because he was prob the fastest guy there, so i had a chat and picked his brain, because he obviously knew more than i do!!!I think at ride days no matter what group u are in, is to be able to control the red mist visor, ride within ur limits, i kno myself that i will ride at about 8 tenth's to keep some in reserve.
Iwant my bike going back on the trailer in one piece, so i can come back another day!!! and i only have one track bike!!!

Gosling1 wrote:

Glen wrote:... I remember Kev Curtain getting some practise time out in the slow group on the occasional busy day......

I would loved to have seen that !

it is up to the faster blokes to pass safely - end of story.

This is not race practice - it is a track day. If some muggins finds himself in the Red group and is a fair bit slower - then the fast guys owe it to all concerned - including themselves - to pass safely. There are no sheep stations at stake here.

Disagree, your in a fast group and need to be fast if not predictable.

Slow bikes are not the issue it is the unpredictability when we pass at speed.

Oh and Madkaw I thought I was at least already at your laptimes

Blurr wrote:

Gosling1 wrote:

Glen wrote:... I remember Kev Curtain getting some practise time out in the slow group on the occasional busy day......

I would loved to have seen that !

it is up to the faster blokes to pass safely - end of story.

This is not race practice - it is a track day. If some muggins finds himself in the Red group and is a fair bit slower - then the fast guys owe it to all concerned - including themselves - to pass safely. There are no sheep stations at stake here.

Disagree, your in a fast group and need to be fast if not predictable.

Slow bikes are not the issue it is the unpredictability when we pass at speed.

Oh and Madkaw I thought I was at least already at your laptimes

Not until you do a 38.. .


(and I said "beating" not at.. beating will be soon enough grasshopper... )