Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

javaman wrote:I think the issue is not the police, but stupid speed limit. Black spur can be enjoyed at reasonable 100kph, but getting a ticket at 80 is both unreasonable and would not reduce fatality in any way. Its penalizing the wrong group. The "racers" who wipe themselves would not care anything about speed limit.

The same can be said about GOR. Who goes there now? I can't recall anyone organizing a ride to GOR.

Enough rant for me, I'd just go to (....ooh not telling! )

problem isn't the racers. they can hold their lines. its the inexperienced riders who think the spurs are a place to learn.

Slow and wobbly wrote:I knew where you were coming from in the first instance Mick and to that end then the police presence is working given that the word is on the grapevine that they are out there. I just wanted to create discussion and see what others felt.
Instead we got this

6maniac wrote:Did he let you wear his cap, too ?

Contribute something worthwhile or fuck off Ron.

Soooooooo did you get to wear the cap or not?

....

In 2009, the Traffic Operations Group Coppers are not interested in safety, they are merely revenue raising tools acting out ridiculous & unreasonable infringement policy for a greedy, money obsessed government.
Gone are the days when you could take the Traffic Police seriously or even hold them in any sort of regard, for many years now - since the government realised what a massive cash cow infringement revenue could be - policing has been about administering fines, not education or prevention.
Has anyone noticed how it's only the older Coppers that will give you a warning? They still have a built in sense of right & wrong & therefore a concience, the younger cops don't give a fuck what you say or do, they've been trained to fine you for something or they're not doing their job. Yes, I'm generalising but that's been my experience.
Anyone with half a brain keeps well away from the Spurs on weekends anyway, there are plenty of challenging roads like the Spurs in Victoria that aren't swarming with mobile cash registers, if you're silly enough to ride there on weekends you can't whinge about how many coppers there are, it's not exactly a secret.
I can't accept that you should cop it sweet if you are fined for speeding these days, sure, if you're doing 150 in a 60 you deserve to be reamed hard, but 55 in a 50? 87 in an 80? 108 in a 100? There is NO DANGER to yourself or other road users or bystanders if you exceed the speed limit by 10% so the punishment does not fit the crime.
In my perfect world, policing would return to the good old days when it was about common sense... but there is less & less of that in all walks of life today, not just policing.
That'll be 2c thanks.

I find that a bit harsh. Whilst I agree that the tolerances are way too small, there still needs to be a line in the sand. You know what it is, you break it, so you gotta wear it.

I have a couple of mates who just happen to be "boys in blue". I'm tipping if they had to list job highlights, knocking on parents doors and telling them that their kid has eaten an armco barrier on his bike wouldn't be one of them.

The problem isn't the speed limits. Some roads are definetely too low for a bike but right for a car. others I've come across are about right and I wouldn't want to do more. The problem is the complete lack of adequate driver and rider training. The Swiss have madatory skid pan time for crying out loud! More to the point it's a fundemental flaw in the way that we as a society are taught to think. Without writing an essay it's the split between Classical thinking (science thinking) and Romantic thinking (artsy or BIG picture thinking). As a researcher I will say that if all the thinking i did was classical I would really suck at my job. Nobody understands the big picture thinking anymore, the lateral thinking. That going around a corner isn't just about entry point, exit point and speed. It's about counting the seconds of vision you have around the corner, how much is your suspension working, how much are your tires and sidewalls working. how smooth is your throttle going to be from this point. I know that mine can be pretty on/off unfortunetely. All of these facets need to be mandatory in training as well as the physical, "get in a car/bike and find out what it's like to do the wrong thing".

6maniac wrote:Oh dear... a moment of levity and you resort to abuse, Adrian. I agree with most of your post as it happens. Next time, should I support your contribution first, then be flippant ?

You should know better than to make an attempt at humour in response to one of Adrian's posts mate ! You know humour is akin to disagreement with him!!!

Adrian, you often make comment about the style of posts in here, perhaps some tolerance might assist in making this a nicer place to visit? Just a thought!


Back to the original post........... Mick, I understand your frustration. It is, unfortunately a by-product of people throwing themselves at the scrubberry,armco,oncoming vehicles etc, which has forced the hand of the boys in blue. Motorcycle sales again hit an all time high in 2008, thus meaning we have more and more people attempting to become a statistic on our favourite roads. I agree with what the police do, it is however, frustrating to be pulled over three or four times in a day. It somewhat diminishes the fun. I certainly would never advocate idiotic riding behaviour on these roads and certainly not on a weekend when the roads are full of vehicles with a myriad of agenders. Normally I ride to a pace up there, even on weekdays. However, I ride this way not to avoid police involvement, but more for self preservation, as I have been on the recieving end of two head on collisions with other riders in the past, as well as witnessing other head ons, with fellow riders in similiar circumstances. All too often the red mist gets involved allowing ambitions to surpass abilities!!! My solution is to try where possible to ride in non peak periods, where the risks are somewhat reduced. However, I was up there on the long weekend. Not on a bike, but in the car. I must say, that on the run up and back down the Reefton Spur in the car, the motorcyclists I encountered were all riding smoothly, safely and well within the limits of the road and to my eye, under or around the speed limits. So perhaps the message is getting through.

However, I am not saying that I don't have some fun up the Reefton....just that I stay well within my limits and attempt to allow some room for other peoples errors. To be honest though, the major issues I have running up that road are usually not from bike riders, but rather from tin toppers. Mostly I must say 4WD's!!!!! They tend to utilise a tad more of the road than they are entitled to from what I have experienced. I believe some percentage of bike crashes on that road could be contributed to an error from tin toppers. However, I am unsure as to if the statistics would reflect this. Many times on that road, I have had to take severe evasive action to avoid a physical interaction with the bull bar of some bogans Hilux or Cruiser with his Lift kit, Mud tyres and roof racks loaded.

black spur is now 80? Get ready for 60 then !

Sounds like the old road going from a once sensible 100 down to 60 in more recent times.

dilligaf wrote:
problem isn't the racers. they can hold their lines. its the inexperienced riders who think the spurs are a place to learn.

i dont think its inexperiance that's solely to blame.if learners were to ride highways the entire time, and even into 2 years of their full licence does that make them experianced, i don't think so!! not untill they have riden all different forms of road from the 40kmh school zone to 110kmh freeway and the 80kmh spur. you need to ride all these sorts of roads to develop the skills neccesary to ride safe.

i agree racers might be able to hold thier lines but only in a controlled environment, NOT on public roads when you have to factor in other road users(different vehicles, oncoming traffic) and road conditions (blind corners, debris on road).

1 death on the reefton this year... dont know whether thats low or high but i suppose the police will say its all down to them...

dutch80au wrote:

dilligaf wrote:
problem isn't the racers. they can hold their lines. its the inexperienced riders who think the spurs are a place to learn.

i agree racers might be able to hold thier lines but only in a controlled environment, NOT on public roads when you have to factor in other road users(different vehicles, oncoming traffic) and road conditions (blind corners, debris on road).

I diasagree with this somewhat. I would much rather go riding with a bunch of racers or ex racers than most road riders! Most racers have skills far beyond those of most road riders and generally tend to ride more within their limits than most road riders as their skill set is far beyond those of most road riders. Therefore, when they are faced with a difficult situation, they are better equipped to deal with it. I have done more kilometres than most have had hot dinners and therefore watched loads of normal road riders unable to deal with unusual situations and therefore, crash!!!! Do a few years of racing and then come back and re-read your post then! I think you will find that your opinion may change! I know that after my three years at state and national level, I came back to the road a far better rider who rides further from my limits than previously!

just cos your limits are higher than ours marty doesnt mean you have to boast

Strika wrote:

dutch80au wrote:

dilligaf wrote:
problem isn't the racers. they can hold their lines. its the inexperienced riders who think the spurs are a place to learn.

i agree racers might be able to hold thier lines but only in a controlled environment, NOT on public roads when you have to factor in other road users(different vehicles, oncoming traffic) and road conditions (blind corners, debris on road).

I diasagree with this somewhat. I would much rather go riding with a bunch of racers or ex racers than most road riders! Most racers have skills far beyond those of most road riders and generally tend to ride more within their limits than most road riders as their skill set is far beyond those of most road riders. Therefore, when they are faced with a difficult situation, they are better equipped to deal with it. I have done more kilometres than most have had hot dinners and therefore watched loads of normal road riders unable to deal with unusual situations and therefore, crash!!!! Do a few years of racing and then come back and re-read your post then! I think you will find that your opinion may change! I know that after my three years at state and national level, I came back to the road a far better rider who rides further from my limits than previously!

couldnt agree more. you find that the these racers also have less to prove on the road. Compared to a typical boy racer that goes from corner exit to corner entry at full throttle then hits the brakes to try and get around the turn just to avoid another rider passing or getting further away!!!

Blurr wrote: couldnt agree more. you find that the these racers also have less to prove on the road.

so true Russ

Six Addict wrote:just cos your limits are higher than ours marty doesnt mean you have to boast

But you're younger...so you have more time to get better !! I'm getting older and slower!!!!