Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

poorbastard wrote:The dirt bike is a very open option and I will most likely end up with one to fulfill my need for some crazy weekends.

Not only that... nothing does more for improving your road riding that riding dirt. Teaches you commitment and how to trust the bike.

I hadn't thought about the old R6's and VTR, will have to look into this as I can honestly say that I didn't consider this end of the spectrum at all.

It's my favourite barrow to push; several-generations-old sportsbikes for n00bs graduating off their n00bikes. Peanuts to buy, plenty of spares around for select models (R6's especially), just as fast as anything more modern. All the speed for a fraction of the "Z0MG, what if I drop it or what if it gets stolen?!?" paranoia. If you have a look back towards the start of the thread, I suggested it already... I call it the "Riding a bike with carburettors doesn't cause your cock/clit to wither and fall off" approach to upgrading.

That said, as Mick already pointed out, there's a decent bike in the Hornet 900 aching to shake off all the sensibility Honda hung off; the motor in those things comes from the original "Ohfuckimgonnadie" bike of the last two decades - the FireBlade. Actually, there you go... for some real white-knuckle excitement, get yourself a pre-1998 FireBlade. They're *real* cheap... alternately, the 1998-1999 FireBlade is one bike you'd give your mum to ride, so if you don't trust yourself, get one of those. To this day, I hear Honda still have a program where they abduct and take back to Japan for scientific tests anyone who manages to fall off one.

I-K wrote:Well, there you go... shows how much attention I pay. I should probably read more bikemags...

Well even if you read Honda's website you wouldn't have picked it up, they haven't changed the bike description:

Front Suspension 43mm cartridge-type telescopic fork, 120mm axle travel
Rear Suspension Monoshock damper with 7-step adjustable preload, 128mm axle travel

...doesn't really tell you a great deal about the front, it's like Honda doesn't realise what they've done with it...

Mick

I-K wrote: See preceding discussion for details... you yourself said that you advised a n00b mate who was having trouble with his 250 turning in too fast for him that he'd be better off on a heavier bike because their "more planted" feel and "heavier steering" mean they don't have the same problem.

You misdiagnosed his problem and offered a solution by taking otherwise-correct information out of context... that's just about textbook know-it-all behavior, isn't it? Shuffling around information you don't actually understand yourself?

It looks like your memory doesn't serve you well, either that or you need much stronger glasses. If you read my post correctly, I simply suggested to my mate that he might feel more comfortable on a heavier bike. You're implying that I stated that to be a fact ie: everyone will feel better on a heavier bike. I simply made a suggestion. As it turns out my suggestion worked as he did feel more confident on the bigger bike.
Your trying to force your opinions on me stating that my suggestions are technically incorrect, yet I see no evidence to support your view. What's to say yours are any better? Not everyone wants to ride like Rossi, they're just happy to take things at their own pace on a bike they want. Whether that's a 250 or 1250 so be it.
It makes me wonder how you find the time to do all this skillful riding you keep talking about if you're on this forum all day

ross79 wrote:

I-K wrote: See preceding discussion for details... you yourself said that you advised a n00b mate who was having trouble with his 250 turning in too fast for him that he'd be better off on a heavier bike because their "more planted" feel and "heavier steering" mean they don't have the same problem.

You misdiagnosed his problem and offered a solution by taking otherwise-correct information out of context... that's just about textbook know-it-all behavior, isn't it? Shuffling around information you don't actually understand yourself?

It looks like your memory doesn't serve you well, either that or you need much stronger glasses. If you read my post correctly, I simply suggested to my mate that he might feel more comfortable on a heavier bike. You're implying that I stated that to be a fact ie: everyone will feel better on a heavier bike. I simply made a suggestion. As it turns out my suggestion worked as he did feel more confident on the bigger bike.
Your trying to force your opinions on me stating that my suggestions are technically incorrect, yet I see no evidence to support your view. What's to say yours are any better? Not everyone wants to ride like Rossi, they're just happy to take things at their own pace on a bike they want. Whether that's a 250 or 1250 so be it.
It makes me wonder how you find the time to do all this skillful riding you keep talking about if you're on this forum all day

Ross, the point I was attempting to make, is that if you can't control a 250 properly, then realistically, it's a bad Idea to be on something bigger. Think of it this way. If you hopped into a car with power steering and kept turning it in too far, is it the car?? Or..is it you over steering it? Naturally it's being oversteered. Now it's the same principle with a bike to a degree. Look at the 250 as a car with power steering and the litre bike as one without. If you are oversteering the 250...that's a direct result of a lack of skill. Thus, the more beneficial advice to the rider should have been to learn how to control it better rather than change to a car without power steering! Shit, I'm alsways looking to make mine turn more like a 250 than less!!

No one seriously makes these posts to receive advice....

Reasons ppl make these posts.

A) To piss the regular posters off because they know they can make a scene out of it.
B) Look cool on the internet.
C) Looking for "way to go you rule" response.

Those are the only reasons, give the posters the positive response they want and they go away.
eg.

Question: "Hi guys, are there any girls out there who ride the zx10r? I'm on P's at present and can't wait to upgrade to a faster bike, currently ride zx2r. I really love the 10's but some people think it's too aggressive???"

Answer: "No you definitely need a faster bike and the 10s aren't aggressive at all, of course you can handle a 10 go buy one."

You will never ever ever convince the original posters of otherwise so don't bother, all these threads do is turn into flame wars hence why the gixxer forums don't bother anymore.

I wanna be cool, can I buy one too

I'm always looking to make mine turn more like a 250 than less!!

EXACTLY.

Ross, your mate may be happy with his Budgie. He may even be quicker on and have more confidence in it than the 250, but that doesn't mean his riding skills have improved. Anyone who can't control a 250 properly has no business being on a big bike in my opinion. So, yes, in my opinion, your opinion was/is technically incorrect.

Actually, his skills should have improved, but not because of the bike switch. Seat time does more for teaching one how to ride than anything. The key to skills improvement, fast or otherwise, is attitude. There are a few reasons why some who have been riding for ages aren't "good" riders (depending on your definition of "good"). Some simply don't care about going fast, or have no desire to improve their technique. Others got on too big a bike too early and scared themselves (but are too "cool" to admit it), or their skills are stunted because they are (still) scared of the sheer amount of grunt available. Still others want to improve, but haven't the required coordination. There are a (very) few people who can get on a big bike and very quickly pick up the required skills. These people are freaks, not the norm.

Kristy may very well get a 10, and ride it around without incident. She may even improve her skill set on it. I don't think anyone has said it's impossible. What has been said is that it's not the best choice, but it is ultimately up to her. I'm not trying to be nasty, but both of you have demonstrated fairly typical "n00bness" in your reasoning and responses (whether or not you are, in fact, a newbie) and you won't be the last.

As I said, it's ultimately up to the rider as to what bike they get. To repeat myself (in context, coming off restrictions), if you want a 10 'cos you just want a 10, get a 10. Just don't expect to be able to ride it like a 10, or have most people think it's a clever thing to do. And if it catches you out, don't complain or be surprised.

ross79 wrote:]If you read my post correctly, I simply suggested to my mate that he might feel more comfortable on a heavier bike.

In other words,

I-K wrote:You misdiagnosed his problem and offered a solution by taking otherwise-correct information out of context... that's just about textbook know-it-all behaviour, isn't it? Shuffling around information you don't actually understand yourself?

The level of subtlety with which you advised him is irrelevant. Do you understand that? Doesn't matter if you suggested it, hinted at it, recommended it or put a gun to his head and said "buy a bigger bike, cahn", the problem is that your whole idea was fundamentally *wrong*. Incorrect. Erroneous. Faulty. Boneheaded. Get it?

What you should have suggested to him, and I challenge anyone outside of a circle-jerk or n00bs convincing each other that they're all ready for big bikes to disagree with it, is that he found the steering on his 250 to be too abrupt because he can't ride yet and that's what he needs to fix first. Moving onto a more capable bike only means the bike does the work for him, and

You're implying that I stated that to be a fact ie: everyone will feel better on a heavier bike.

Where did I imply that? Can you show me?

I'm asking that because I *didn't* imply that you stated that "everyone will feel better on a heavier bike" ...really, I'm just trying to get an idea how much trouble you have with comprehension of written English, so I can adjust my posts for the rest of this discussion accordingly... keep things simple enough for you to follow.

I simply made a suggestion.

A suggestion which, as outlined a large number of times by now, was wrong.

As it turns out my suggestion worked as he did feel more confident on the bigger bike.

Yes, because he's now got a bike that masks his shortcomings as a rider. Can you understand how that is not a good thing?

Your trying to force your opinions on me

No, I'm just trying to get you to show how little clue you have so people stop listening to you when you try yo drop knowledge about bikes and try to get some good advice which won't compromise their development as riders instead.

stating that my suggestions are technically incorrect, yet I see no evidence to support your view.

Are you familiar with the concept of "prerequisite knowledge"? Your Mrs is a teacher. She can explain it to you if necessary...

What's to say yours are any better?

I don't go around telling people they should think about 250kg/135hp sportstourers as solutions to the issues they're having handling their 130kg/30hp 250's.

Not everyone wants to ride like Rossi, they're just happy to take things at their own pace on a bike they want. Whether that's a 250 or 1250 so be it.

That statement is at odds with someone who makes a habit of putting ideas into people's heads about what bike they should ride...

makes me wonder how you find the time to do all this skillful riding you keep talking about if you're on this forum all day

It doesn't actually take that long to hand someone their arse when they're as soft as target as you...

i went from a zx2r to a brand spanking 06 zx636. I can still remeber the first time i rode it after being run in and being allowed to give it a good hard opening after taking it easy for first 1000km's.

all i can say is, the smile on my face after giving it stick in 2nd went from 1 side of my face to the other, even with a helmet on!

I think for street riding which is wat 99% of my riding was 636 was almost too much.... If i wanted to go nuts on it, it was awesome, the note from the stock pipe, the power that used to have amazes me even still. Something so small!
It was capable of doing power wheelies in 1st and 2nd and the front wheel used to float off the ground if i got stuck into it!
Around town thru slow traffic (if i wasn't lane spliting) that motor takes a bit to get worked up so that was the only down side.

The 10r. I have never ridden one, but after doing over 10,000k's on the 636 i still think its more than capable of doing everything u need it to do!

Just another note to point out from reading other posts made by people.

if my memory serves me correctly, i remeber watching a car dvd where they had a Toyota Supra racing a ZX12R. the zx12r with fair few mods, hit 320kp/h as its top speed. (supra got over 330 i think and i own one of them! YAY!)

this is a bike which did have a few mods to it and was a 1.2L bike.

My 636 i had it upto 270kp/h. My 636 u could basically say is 50% the literage of the zx12r and yet i was only going 40kp/h slower. Plus wats more my 636 was stock. this 12r wasn't

Yes the 636 won't do the same 1/4 mile as the 10 or the 12 (maybe 1 or 2 seconds slower) and 636 won't reach top speed as quick as the bigger literage bikes. But how often do u need to be able to do a 1/4 mikle faster? and how often do u need to be able to get to the top speed quicker?

Just some food for thought, i love the 10R also and if i had the money i would buy one!

Saki wrote:.....My 636 i had it upto 270kp/h. My 636 u could basically say is 50% the literage of the zx12r and yet i was only going 40kp/h slower. Plus wats more my 636 was stock. this 12r wasn't .....

One thing to consider here is the Law of Diminishing Returns, when you aim for really high top speeds. The additional horsepower required to get that extra 40kmh, at those speeds, is way more than you would expect. Each additional 10kmh requires much more than just an additional 10hp...(using the 1:1 hp/weight ratio as an example) , and at those speeds, the quality of the aerodynamics start to make all the difference as well.....

I wonder how many HP that Supra had to crack 330kmh ??

Grunt06GPX wrote:No one seriously makes these posts to receive advice....

Reasons ppl make these posts.

A) To piss the regular posters off because they know they can make a scene out of it.
B) Look cool on the internet.
C) Looking for "way to go you rule" response.

Those are the only reasons, give the posters the positive response they want and they go away.
eg.

Question: "Hi guys, are there any girls out there who ride the zx10r? I'm on P's at present and can't wait to upgrade to a faster bike, currently ride zx2r. I really love the 10's but some people think it's too aggressive???"

Answer: "No you definitely need a faster bike and the 10s aren't aggressive at all, of course you can handle a 10 go buy one."

You will never ever ever convince the original posters of otherwise so don't bother, all these threads do is turn into flame wars hence why the gixxer forums don't bother anymore.

I have to say that, on balance, my similar post re 600 v 750 convinced me not to get a GSXR750, after a bit of flaming and good advice. So it is not a complete waste of time. I agree the flame wars are a waste of time but at least they are entertaining.

Gosling1 wrote:

Saki wrote:.....My 636 i had it upto 270kp/h. My 636 u could basically say is 50% the literage of the zx12r and yet i was only going 40kp/h slower. Plus wats more my 636 was stock. this 12r wasn't .....

One thing to consider here is the Law of Diminishing Returns, when you aim for really high top speeds. The additional horsepower required to get that extra 40kmh, at those speeds, is way more than you would expect. Each additional 10kmh requires much more than just an additional 10hp...(using the 1:1 hp/weight ratio as an example) , and at those speeds, the quality of the aerodynamics start to make all the difference as well.....

I wonder how many HP that Supra had to crack 330kmh ??

Oh a stock supra will do it.. LOL haha your right tho gos, and thats the point i am trying to make, a modern 600 like the 636 is just as capable as a 12r and 12 is almost twice the size bike!

I think its that car film called detonate, i can't remeber exactly, but the supra had HEAPS of work, where as the 12 had few bits and peices! but deerrrrr anyone could tell u that!

I have to agree with mmaster, i love a good flaming! on another note i might get a kebab for tea!

Grunt06GPX wrote:No one seriously makes these posts to receive advice....

Reasons ppl make these posts.

A) To piss the regular posters off because they know they can make a scene out of it.
B) Look cool on the internet.
C) Looking for "way to go you rule" response.

Those are the only reasons, give the posters the positive response they want and they go away.
eg.

Question: "Hi guys, are there any girls out there who ride the zx10r? I'm on P's at present and can't wait to upgrade to a faster bike, currently ride zx2r. I really love the 10's but some people think it's too aggressive???"

Answer: "No you definitely need a faster bike and the 10s aren't aggressive at all, of course you can handle a 10 go buy one."

You will never ever ever convince the original posters of otherwise so don't bother, all these threads do is turn into flame wars hence why the gixxer forums don't bother anymore.

And to this I will add;

Grunt06GPX wrote:No one seriously makes these posts to receive advice....

Reasons ppl make these posts.

A) To piss the regular posters off because they know they can make a scene out of it.
B) Look cool on the internet.
C) Looking for "way to go you rule" response.

Those are the only reasons, give the posters the positive response they want and they go away.
eg.

Question: "Hi guys, are there any girls out there who ride the zx10r? I'm on P's at present and can't wait to upgrade to a faster bike, currently ride zx2r. I really love the 10's but some people think it's too aggressive???"

Answer: "No you definitely need a faster bike and the 10s aren't aggressive at all, of course you can handle a 10 go buy one."

You will never ever ever convince the original posters of otherwise so don't bother, all these threads do is turn into flame wars hence why the gixxer forums don't bother anymore.

Yeah, unfortunately I'm starting to think that there are a couple of people on this forum who truly do just like the sound of their own voice, or... um...the sight of their own text??.. It has disappointed me greatly. Ross and I use some really useful forums to gain help and advice from some people who really know their stuff about our cars. These forums NEVER contain shit slinging, just genuine people trying to help. Don't get me wrong, I think 99% of the guys on this forum are also genuine. A small, few are just kinda old and nasty...that's all. I started this thread for advice, I didn't and still don't know exactly how a 10 will feel, and I have no intention to buy one before I have had a long ride on one. Who knows? I might hate it. I have said previously, and adhere to my words, I have read, considered and appreciated all of the opinions that people have given their time to share with me.

Reasons ppl make these posts.

A) To piss the regular posters off because they know they can make a scene out of it.
B) Look cool on the internet.
C) Looking for "way to go you rule" response.

I don't think I'll look very cool on a bike I can't ride!