Premium with Ethanol

Post by **MadKaw** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:31 pm

The servo up the road from me has just added a range of Ethanol blended fuels to its range. The only problem is the 98 octane fuel is now a 10% ethanol mix and they don't have one without...
I sent an e-mail to Kawi asking what there opinion is on the use of Ethanol blends in there bikes and am yet to receive a reply..

Any thoughts...

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:16 pm

Dave
thats interesting

do you remember the stink a few years ago, when Ethanol was first added
and the car companies all came out and said it should not be used
or used only in small quantities..(from memory) Ford or Toyota
said no greater than 5% in fuel

I too will be interested in Kwaka Ozs reply

cheers

photomike666 · Post by **photomike666** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:00 pm

My manual says don't used fuels with ethanol, so far BP don't add any

Barrabob · Post by **Barrabob** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:53 pm

Possibly avoid it if you can and try to stick to vortex or ultimate and keep recipts in case your fuel pump clags it.

i think they did a trial a while ago with ultimate with ethanol.

tape · Post by **tape** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:26 pm

From memory United petroleum is alledgedly using ethanol and Shell are about to or have launched an ethanol product.

One of our inspectors contacted Ford and they have said if ethanol is used in his XR6 it will void his warranty.

There is new changes comming in regard to ethanol percentages.

Alledgedly Alledgedly Alledgedly

mfzx6r · Post by **mfzx6r** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:32 pm

Tell them to stick that sit up their F$%KING arse !!!!!!!!!!!

If I'm paying rip off prices and even more for Premium petrol than thats what I want !!!! not that crap

hoffy · Post by **hoffy** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:14 pm

here here.........

Do they use ethanol in Japan? Isn't their petrol 101 ron standard?

Does enthanol reduce RON rating?

I-K · Post by **I-K** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:06 pm

hoffy wrote:Does enthanol reduce RON rating?

It displaces longer-chain alkanes, such as octane, and releases hydroxide groups when burnt, effectively boosting the amount of oxygen in the mixture.

Both of those effectvely lean out the burn... thus, the short answer would be "Yup".

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:30 pm

I-K wrote:
hoffy wrote:Does enthanol reduce RON rating?
It displaces longer-chain alkanes, such as octane, and releases hydroxide groups when burnt, effectively boosting the amount of oxygen in the mixture.

Both of those effectvely lean out the burn... thus, the short answer would be "Yup".

which begs the question..........if they are advertising it as premium incl ethanol is it guaranteed to be min 95RON and for your vortex, ultimate, synergy8000 or optimax it would have to be min 98RON ? regardless of wether or not it includes ethanol

Post by **MadKaw** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:22 pm

Interesting... The info on it states "Ethanol is a natural octane enhancer - adding 10% ethanol to petrol boosts its octane number and its performance."
The std ulp with ethanol is rated at 94 octane - up from the std 91...

Heres some more info...
http://www.ethanolfacts.com/engine.asp

and more
http://www.e10unleaded.com/mythbusters.htm

Now this is from the manufacturers so take it with a grain of corn..
But then most of the negatives about ethanol have been pushed by the oil companies.....

Post by **MadKaw** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:23 pm

The reply from Kawasaki..

There are several issues regarding “E10” fuels and the effect that they have on Kawasaki engines. Kawasaki Motorcycles from 1995 through to current models should not in normal operating conditions experience any appreciable adverse effects on performance providing the fuel being used complies with the recommended Research Octane Number (RON) as prescribed in the Owners Manual. Due to the reduced calorific value of ethanol it is possible however that using a 10% blended mixture containing ethanol may result in a lean out effect being experienced in some models. If this is the case then the operator should stop using 10% ethanol blended fuel.

Another issue that may be experienced using “E10” fuels is possible deterioration of carburetor and fuel injection components if the fuel is left to stand for a period of time. The calorific value of the blended fuel will deteriorate over a short period ( short shelf life) resulting in a lesser value of its RON but even worse ethanol type fuel can have an adverse effect on many components in the carburetor if left to sit for extended periods without use. Owners should be aware of this and refer to their Kawasaki Owner’s Manual storage chapter.

Kawasaki Motors Pty. Ltd. will not be extending warranty coverage on components adversely affected by Ethanol blended fuels.

Blue14 · Post by **Blue14** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:11 pm

so fuel companies are introducing it and motor companies are saying they will not cover warranties, etc.... So where do you stand then? Sounds like therer could be some court cases coming up eventually. Does anyone know if mobil 8000 has any ethanol in it?? This is such a piss poor effort by all concerned, we shouldnt have to even be worried about this sort of shit.

greenmeanie · Post by **greenmeanie** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:16 pm

My take on it was if you got a 2T or 4T bike stay clear unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer.

I know in QLD that all petrol stations providing E10(Ethanol Blend) are required to clearly display a label as close as possible to each nozzle that dispenses the ethanol blend.

Here are a couple of links:

http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethano ... 00001.html

http://www.caltex.com.au/about_news_det ... 9#problems

jpbikeboy · Post by **jpbikeboy** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:48 pm

my only experience with ethanol fuel was bad. I ran it in my 5ltr bommodore a few years ago and it gussled like an alcaaholic at a brewery. Yes it runs leaner but if you have EFI that is "self learning" it just adds more fuel to compensate. I would avoid it.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:17 pm

to add to this debate........

100 Octane Fuel Released Today From Shell
Shell today claimed a world first when it launched its new flagship 100 octane fuel successfully formulated with 5% ethanol - Shell Optimax Extreme. This creates a new 'super premium' petrol category for the Australian marketplace.

Scientifically formulated in Australia, the breakthrough fuel formulation uses 5% ethanol as an octane-boosting, cleaner burning component and is designed specifically to deliver a higher level of engine responsiveness, sharper acceleration and enhanced power in many modern and high performance cars. Shell Optimax Extreme also has the same engine cleaning qualities as Shell Optimax.

Shell Optimax Extreme has been positively tested in Shell's global laboratory in the UK and in Australia by industry experts including MoTeC and Dick Johnson Racing. Major car manufacturers in Australia have also recently endorsed the use of up to 10% ethanol blended fuel in their new vehicles.

We are proud to be supporting Australian ethanol manufacturers and contributing to the Federal Governments biofuels targets. Through the formulation with ethanol, Shell Optimax Extreme has a substantially lower sulphur and benzene content than the maximum levels set under the Federal Government's fuel quality standards. Ethanol is also a cleaner burning, renewable fuel component, which can help to reduce Greenhouse gas emissions.

The revolutionary 100 octane fuel will be manufactured at our Geelong refinery and is the first significant advancement in unleaded fuel technology since the introduction of Shell Optimax in 1999.

Shell Optimax Extreme will be available exclusively through selected Coles Express service stations in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Brisbane and the Gold Coast.

For technical information and service station locations, visit http://www.shell.com.au/extreme

--------------------------------------------------

cheers