fark off YOU idiot!!!! (LONG)

[Neka79]

maybe not only do u need to practice ur emergency braking (find a quiet side street or car park or take up Lainies offer- to which im sure Tones will be instructing??)...maybe u should think about THINKING.....

half the problem with riding a bike is its mentally draining, anticipating dickheads in cars, and cops with RBT set-ups...

u shouldnt of been doing more than 60kph in the city...and u shouldnt of been going so fast u couldnt stop when directed...those big flashy lights on the cop car are ussually a give away that u need to anticipate sumthin bad (accident/rbt/drug bust)

[mrmina]

when i did my L's at stay upright they told me to use both brakes.
when i did my p's at hart i was told to gear down and use front.

DECA are teaching the both brake method - "Front, clutch, rear, gear."

something like that

[MickLC]

...at least i know now the braking capacity of the bike

it's liek if u never locked up ur wheels, how u were to know what to do and how to react when u did it?

i took it as a lesson in riding. a good one too.

No you didn't, you just got an idea of how badly your bike pulls up with the rear locked, which no-one is saying is a good way to do an emergency stop, whether you use both brakes or just the front.

You've still got a lot to learn.

[Burky]

Just read the first page.....

Beside the 600 on your P's ok! Dumb but not unforgivable but DRINKING and RIDING that is!!!!

To be social you don't need to drink. I have been to many functions but never needed to drink if i am driving. People come up to you and ask "what not drinking" the easiest response is "NO got" to drive most people are sweet with it, if not fark-um!
Next time think it may not be you that gets killed, it could be some one else that does enjoy life.

Please be carfull and think????

[Lainie]

maybe not only do u need to practice ur emergency braking (find a quiet side street or car park or take up Lainies offer- to which im sure Tones will be instructing??)...maybe u should think about THINKING.....

Yeap Tones has offered his time as I have to do the advanced course as well... I am sure between Tones and a few others there that HP will get in at a time that suits all....

[Tones]

BUT how ever emergency braking is using both rear and front brakes... If you where only to use from you would end up in an endo...It is all to do with gravity etc....

Cheers Lainie

Sorry Lainie but thats crap!

There is a huge difference in doing an endo and emergency braking with the front brake only.
Yeah if you jam the front on as hard as and fast the bike may lift the back wheel.
But you can brake extremly hard, to the point of the front wheel chirping and the back getting light, without ending up on your arse.
Its called brake modulation.

Hey people who have riddeen with me know i am by no means the next Casey Stoner but i did take the time to learn how to stop fast if needed and do a u turn ( hey Plas )

I think he needs to get out from behind his computer and spend more time riding.

I think there maybe some misinterpreting here. How a bike stops depends on many factors such as surface, tyres, tyre pressures, age of brake fluid, how much fuel in the tank, pillion, reaction time, etc, etc, etc. What Lainie was trying to explain is in certain circumstances many bikes may be more likely to do an endo if emergency braking with front brake only. Naturally this would not be the case on all bikes (eg. a cruiser). But say a sports bike braking whilst travelling downhill may be more likely to get the rear wheel up.

For the record what is trained as part of the "L" and "P" courses is to always use both front and rear brakes when performing an emergency stop. On "normal" stops the rider is trained to gear down to first gear. However on emergency stops it is whatever gear you are in you stop in. HART are very strong in pulling in the clutch in the moment before the engine stalls. Using both brakes is an important part of correct braking for the reason of the rear helps control the bike under heavy braking. By using the rear it helps to lower the centre of gravity by declerating the rear and keeping it in line. Without the rear brake the rear will sit higher and gains greater leverage over the front (and more likey to get into something like an endo). Perhaps it would be a good opportunity to watch a rider try and use front only, and another stop using both and you can see more so what I am trying to explain. What often happens when braking is we get used to using a certain amount of pressure on teh rear brake. However when we are faced with an emergency, the weight transfer is obviously much greater on the front. With not as much weight holding the rear down is has a greater chance of locking. So HP it is not surprising that you locked the rear when trying to pull up in a hurry. What you need to do is to practise emergency braking and to be able to adjust your technique according the circumstances you are in.

At the same time there are things that come to mind...

1. Dont wait for an emergency to practise emergency braking - it is not the best learning environment!!!!

2. Ideally is to concentrate so you dont put yourself in the position for it to be an emergency.

Geez btw has been ages since I have posted!!

Cheers

Tones

[Tones]

BUT how ever emergency braking is using both rear and front brakes...

when i did my L's at stay upright they told me to use both brakes.
when i did my p's at hart i was told to gear down and use front.

in a real situation, i've used both and they have both saved me, however the first option makes ur back wheel lockup, slide out and can cause an off.

Anyway IF you want we are offering you FREE training in learning to do this....Basic skills at RideTek.. Seeing as that are for FREE though you will need to use your own bike... You know how to contact us and if you need training please just ask....

can i do it too. i had fun doing my licence.

Mina you are in the same boat of many people - People being confused, yet braking is something you do every time you ride (hopefully...hehe).

Maybe it is bad habits, but braking is one skill we should practise often. 99% of courses I have seen people have left with an amazement of what they can achieve with correct braking technique. Many an accident is due to incorrect braking (when you brake it down - not stopping in time, not having enough control, etc). I guess if you dont know how quickly you can stop, how do you know what a safe speed is in a situation?

I am not saying I am an expert by any stretch, but I can say practising it a lot has helped me out immensly.

Cheers

[Gosling1]

.......I think there maybe some misinterpreting here. How a bike stops depends on many factors such as surface, tyres, tyre pressures, age of brake fluid, how much fuel in the tank, pillion, reaction time, etc, etc, etc. What Lainie was trying to explain is in certain circumstances many bikes may be more likely to do an endo if emergency braking with front brake only. Naturally this would not be the case on all bikes (eg. a cruiser). But say a sports bike braking whilst travelling downhill may be more likely to get the rear wheel up.

For the record what is trained as part of the "L" and "P" courses is to always use both front and rear brakes when performing an emergency stop. On "normal" stops the rider is trained to gear down to first gear. However on emergency stops it is whatever gear you are in you stop in. HART are very strong in pulling in the clutch in the moment before the engine stalls. Using both brakes is an important part of correct braking for the reason of the rear helps control the bike under heavy braking. By using the rear it helps to lower the centre of gravity by declerating the rear and keeping it in line. Without the rear brake the rear will sit higher and gains greater leverage over the front (and more likey to get into something like an endo). Perhaps it would be a good opportunity to watch a rider try and use front only, and another stop using both and you can see more so what I am trying to explain. What often happens when braking is we get used to using a certain amount of pressure on teh rear brake. However when we are faced with an emergency, the weight transfer is obviously much greater on the front. With not as much weight holding the rear down is has a greater chance of locking. So HP it is not surprising that you locked the rear when trying to pull up in a hurry. What you need to do is to practise emergency braking and to be able to adjust your technique according the circumstances you are in.

At the same time there are things that come to mind...

1. Dont wait for an emergency to practise emergency braking - it is not the best learning environment!!!!

2. Ideally is to concentrate so you dont put yourself in the position for it to be an emergency.

Geez btw has been ages since I have posted!!
Cheers

Tones

and we have missed them , and the above post is why ! That is the most measured and accurate post yet about what, in reality, was a 5-second brain fade by a forum member (I will ignore the P's and riding a 600, its pretty common).........

although I will admit that once or twice I have also been guilty of having a few grogs and riding home........basically 4 nights a week for 5 years in the early 80's I don't condone anyone doing this, but you know what they say about living in glass houses..... (BTW, never *once* had a prang, and only got breathoe'd once...... blew the meter off the dial , and had to do a proper test at the station.....blew .75, and the Shift Sarge just about popped a gasket as he booted me out of the holding rooms !! )

HP - you learn a lesson in life every day. You just learnt a good one. Take some advice from the forum, and do the course that Tones has offered. If it means that next time you actually make the entrance to the RBT, you will also be happy that you haven't been drinking this time.....

[Buck]

Penny give it away mate youll live longer.
steve

[Neka79]

maybe not only do u need to practice ur emergency braking (find a quiet side street or car park or take up Lainies offer- to which im sure Tones will be instructing??)...maybe u should think about THINKING.....

half the problem with riding a bike is its mentally draining, anticipating dickheads in cars, and cops with RBT set-ups...

u shouldnt of been doing more than 60kph in the city...and u shouldnt of been going so fast u couldnt stop when directed...those big flashy lights on the cop car are ussually a give away that u need to anticipate sumthin bad (accident/rbt/drug bust)

ummm i think my post is worthy of a re-read....

[blackninja]

maybe not only do u need to practice ur emergency braking (find a quiet side street or car park or take up Lainies offer- to which im sure Tones will be instructing??)...maybe u should think about THINKING.....

half the problem with riding a bike is its mentally draining, anticipating dickheads in cars, and cops with RBT set-ups...

u shouldnt of been doing more than 60kph in the city...and u shouldnt of been going so fast u couldnt stop when directed...those big flashy lights on the cop car are ussually a give away that u need to anticipate sumthin bad (accident/rbt/drug bust)

ummm i think my post is worthy of a re-read....

ummm lets re-read that again

[Nanna10r]

maybe not only do u need to practice ur emergency braking (find a quiet side street or car park or take up Lainies offer- to which im sure Tones will be instructing??)...maybe u should think about THINKING.....

half the problem with riding a bike is its mentally draining, anticipating dickheads in cars, and cops with RBT set-ups...

u shouldnt of been doing more than 60kph in the city...and u shouldnt of been going so fast u couldnt stop when directed...those big flashy lights on the cop car are ussually a give away that u need to anticipate sumthin bad (accident/rbt/drug bust)

ummm i think my post is worthy of a re-read....

ummm lets re-read that again

Top bit of Nannarin' Nath, let the Wisdom flow son

[Tones]

Here here


ummm i think my post is worthy of a re-read....

ummm lets re-read that again

Top bit of Nannarin' Nath, let the Wisdom flow son

[Strika]

BUT how ever emergency braking is using both rear and front brakes... If you where only to use from you would end up in an endo...It is all to do with gravity etc....

Cheers Lainie

Sorry Lainie but thats crap!

There is a huge difference in doing an endo and emergency braking with the front brake only.
Yeah if you jam the front on as hard as and fast the bike may lift the back wheel.
But you can brake extremly hard, to the point of the front wheel chirping and the back getting light, without ending up on your arse.
Its called brake modulation.

Hey people who have riddeen with me know i am by no means the next Casey Stoner but i did take the time to learn how to stop fast if needed and do a u turn ( hey Plas )

I think he needs to get out from behind his computer and spend more time riding.

I think there maybe some misinterpreting here. How a bike stops depends on many factors such as surface, tyres, tyre pressures, age of brake fluid, how much fuel in the tank, pillion, reaction time, etc, etc, etc. What Lainie was trying to explain is in certain circumstances many bikes may be more likely to do an endo if emergency braking with front brake only. Naturally this would not be the case on all bikes (eg. a cruiser). But say a sports bike braking whilst travelling downhill may be more likely to get the rear wheel up.

For the record what is trained as part of the "L" and "P" courses is to always use both front and rear brakes when performing an emergency stop. On "normal" stops the rider is trained to gear down to first gear. However on emergency stops it is whatever gear you are in you stop in. HART are very strong in pulling in the clutch in the moment before the engine stalls. Using both brakes is an important part of correct braking for the reason of the rear helps control the bike under heavy braking. By using the rear it helps to lower the centre of gravity by declerating the rear and keeping it in line. Without the rear brake the rear will sit higher and gains greater leverage over the front (and more likey to get into something like an endo). Perhaps it would be a good opportunity to watch a rider try and use front only, and another stop using both and you can see more so what I am trying to explain. What often happens when braking is we get used to using a certain amount of pressure on teh rear brake. However when we are faced with an emergency, the weight transfer is obviously much greater on the front. With not as much weight holding the rear down is has a greater chance of locking. So HP it is not surprising that you locked the rear when trying to pull up in a hurry. What you need to do is to practise emergency braking and to be able to adjust your technique according the circumstances you are in.

At the same time there are things that come to mind...

1. Dont wait for an emergency to practise emergency braking - it is not the best learning environment!!!!

2. Ideally is to concentrate so you dont put yourself in the position for it to be an emergency.

Geez btw has been ages since I have posted!!

Cheers

Tones

All that is great, and in my opinion all accurate. However, I have a slightly different variation on your thought process. As a trained instructor, you teach this to your students. I also hope that you teach them to apply the rear, fractionally prior to applying the front!

the reason I say this is, that if you are attempting an emergency brake, if you do not apply the rear brake first, the rear tyre will lift with front brake application and the friction component will be reduced to an effect that is marginal if any to say the least.

Applying the rear fractionally before the front causes the rear to squat slightly, thus as Tones so rightly says, lowers the centre of gravity. It also brings the weight bias slightly towards the rear in doing so and as Tones also correctly points out stabislises the bike slightly (some use it lanes splitting for the same purpose).

However, if this weight transfer is not taken up prior to activating the front brake, the weight will have already transferred, and in an emergency braking situation, the rear would be rendered almost useless and end up being locked up as it requires bugger all pressure to lock when in this situation.

As a &% year riding veteran, I would actually discourage the use of the rear brake in any road situation during the learner and Provisional stages, as unless they are a rarity, usually do not have the skill required yet to operate it correctly in an emergency.

I use the rear brake when lane splitting to steady the bike, when braking into Honda corner from 260kph, and from the apex of Siberia and Southern to control wheelspin, or tighten my line slightly when running a little wide. Other than that, I don't touch it much and I encourage those newer to bikes to do the same.

[Maty10]

I also hope that you teach them to apply the rear, fractionally prior to applying the front!

Applying the rear fractionally before the front causes the rear to squat slightly, thus as Tones so rightly says, lowers the centre of gravity. It also brings the weight bias slightly towards the rear in doing so and as Tones also correctly points out stabislises the bike slightly (some use it lanes splitting for the same purpose).

However, if this weight transfer is not taken up prior to activating the front brake, the weight will have already transferred, and in an emergency braking situation, the rear would be rendered almost useless and end up being locked up as it requires bugger all pressure to lock when in this situation.

DECA are teaching the both brake method - "Front, clutch, rear, gear."

Time to mention the "set-up and squeeze" method tought back in my day at Stay Upright (ok so it wasn't that long ago). Used in any braking situation, but taught during the emergency braking lesson. The front brake should be first "set-up" by a very light grab of the lever, allowing the weight transfer to happen onto the front wheel and settle the suspension. Followed then by the much harder squeeze in which the actual braking is done. Applying a huge amount of front brake before any weight transfer is done (by any method suggested) would be suicide, with forces going off in all directions, and very little weight on the front wheel, reducing its traction and ability to brake.

Stay Upright also taught to throw the clutch straight away and forget about it and the gears. Worry about banging it back into first once the emergency is over, right now is the time for braking, and/or avoiding the situation.

I do believe Stay Upright taught to use the rear brake in emergencies, showing a graphy thing saying that at hight speed 0% to 5% rear brake should be used, at moderate speed 20% to 30% of your braking should be on the rear, and at very low speed (less that 20ks) 100% of your braking should be done with the rear.

Personally that made great sense to me and I left the course and took the information away and practised it. It felt back then that the initial "set-up" took half a second or so to acheive, today it feels like I can achieve it in a bee's dick of a second, un-noticable, just a muscle reaction.

Not trying to debate the meritts of any method, just offering up how braking was explained to me. On the road these days I do use the rear brake moderately. I kind of just place my foot on it, knowing that it will have a small effect on braking, and on squating the rear and balancing the bike, but not relying on it. And of course I use it exclusivly for the really slow crawl through traffic or the last metre pulling up at lights. On the track forget it.